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  1. #1
    BG Content
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    pDIF Changes (Feb. 10th, 2016)

    Please post pDIF testing in here.

    Summary thus far is:
    1) There is still a 1.05 secondary randomizer
    2) Caps vary by weapon type. At the moment, the divisions appear to be 1H/2H/Ranged:
    * 1H Weapons: Cap at 3.25 pDIF (both upper and lower bounds)
    * Ranged weapons: Cap at 3.5 pDIF (both upper and lower bounds)
    * 2H Weapons: Cap at 3.75 pDIF (both upper and lower bounds)
    3) Crits (at cap) add ~1pDIF. It is unclear whether this is actually implemented as such, or is some addition to wRatio as in the previous model.
    4) No other changes appear to have been made to the damage formulas and the same pDIF equations apply to WSs.



    Damage ranges against level 1 monsters by weapon:
    Spoiler: show
    Centovente (186 delay) D54 19% crit damage
    272, 272, 274, 274, 274, 276, 277, 279, 279, 279, 280, 283, 283, 284, 285, 285, 285
    4.24~4.4444

    175, 175, 175, 176, 177, 177, 178, 179, 179, 179, 180, 180, 181, 181, 182, 183, 183
    3.24~3.388



    Ragnarok (431 delay) D256 10% crit damage
    Crit: 1348, 1349, 1369, 1382, 1384, 1390, 1392, 1394, 1401
    4.79~4.97

    Noncrit: 962, 963, 968, 982, 995, 997, 1000
    3.76~3.91


    Ukonvasara (482 delay) D280 10% crit damage
    Crit: 1472, 1478, 1491, 1505, 1507, 1508, 1520, 1532, 1535
    4.78~4.986

    Noncrit: 1050, 1061, 1062, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1080, 1099
    3.75~3.925

    Divinity (max augments): (340 delay) D232 probably, 10% crit damage
    Noncrit: 758~789
    3.27~3.4

    Dasva also tested with a gun and got 3.5 pDIF non-crit (and still *1.25 for crits)
    https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...=1#post6633613

  2. #2
    Chram
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    Some two-handed cRatio testing. I only did a few dozen hits for each cRatio, so don't treat the precise minimums and maximums as gospel.

    Weapon: Earth Staff (DMG: 30, 41 with capped fSTR)
    Target: Level 73 Flamingos (314 defense)

    cRatio = 2.25: 75-105 (~1.829-2.561)
    cRatio = 2.50: 87-120 (~2.122-2.927)
    cRatio = 2.75: 98-129 (~2.390-3.146)
    cRatio = 3.00: 115-140 (~2.805-3.416)
    cRatio = 3.25: 120-154 (~2.927-3.850)
    cRatio = 3.50: 132-159 (~3.200-3.878)
    cRatio = 3.75: 139-160 (~3.390-3.902)
    cRatio = 4.00: 153-160 (~3.732-3.902)
    cRatio = 4.25: 153-160 (~3.732-3.902)

    So, it looks like two handed weapons cap at 4.00 cRatio.

  3. #3
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    Honestly it looks like they just extrapolated the current equations and gave variable ratio caps to the different weapon types.

    Spoiler: show


    I'll try to collect some data for 1H this weekend including crits.

  4. #4
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    Also fighting level 73 Flamingos as DNC/WAR with Apururu. I had to use some different weapon types on Dancer so I could wear gear to keep my crit rate up.

    Raphael's Rod (D40 + 12 fSTR = D52, 25% crit bonus) :
    cRatio = 2.00 (628/314) : 83~126n : 173~227c : 1.596~2.308n : 2.673~3.333c
    cRatio = 2.50 (785/314) : 111~154n : 203~262c : 2.135~2.821n : 3.135~3.846c

    Mafic Cudgel (D165 total, 25% crit bonus) :
    cRatio = 2.25 (706/314) : 311~447n : 600~773c : 1.885~2.580n : 2.909~3.573c

    Atoyac (D115 total, 25% piercing bonus, 19% crit bonus) :
    cRatio = 2.75 (863/314) : 345~446n : 583~732c : 2.400~3.089n : 3.417~4.083c

    Atoyac (D115 total, 25% piercing bonus, 25% crit bonus) :
    cRatio = 3.00 (942/314) : 375~488n : 657~800c : 2.609~3.238n : 3.661~4.240c
    cRatio = 3.50 (1099/314) : 453~488n : 753~800c : 3.157~3.238n : 4.200~4.240c
    cRatio = 3.625 (1129/314) : 466~488n : 762~800c : 3.250~3.250n : 4.243~4.240c



    It looks like they just extrapolated the last melee pDIF equations to higher caps. Those equations are:
    * Upper Limit = wRatio + 0.375
    * Lower Limit = wRatio - 0.375

    The final result of these equations is capped based on 1H (non-crit: 3.25, crit: 4.25) vs. 2H (non-crit: 3.75, crit: 4.75) type. Ratio no longer has a formal cap, but it stops being effective at different points for 1H and 2H weapons:
    * 3.625 effective wRatio cap for 1H weapon users
    * 4.125 effective wRatio cap for 2H weapon users

    Crits are wRatio + 1, and the slope is 1 in this regime so that's the same as pDIF + 1. They cap out at the same time as noncrits.

    Edit: Added data for 3.625 Ratio
    <object id="kpm_plugin" type="application/x-KPMPlugin"></object>

  5. #5
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    Tye (Lakshmi) tested his new Yoichi in game today and discovered that things weren't adding up, and then he logged around and tested various ranged weapons, STR values, etc. Looks like Archery and Throwing have different pDIF caps than Marksmanship.

    Bestas Bane (D65+30fSTR) did 308 damage (458 damage crit with 19% crit damage gear). 308/95 = 3.25

    Yoichinoyumi 119 III (D303+82fSTR) with D89 arrow did 1540 damage. 1540/474 = 3.25

    Donar Gun (D103+38fSTR) with D220 bullets did 1263 damage. 1263/361 = 3.50

    Tsoa Crossbow (D104+38 fSTR) with D18 bolts did 560 damage. 560/160 = 3.50


    I don't know if this skill-by-skill breakdown is going to apply to melee weapons as well. Dagger, GS, GA, Staff, Katana, and Club fit the simple 1H vs. 2H division. Scythe, Polearm, Sword, Axe, GKT, and H2H are untested.

  6. #6
    Chram
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    Would you happen to know the relevant sections to change in Motenten's spreadsheets to reflect the new caps?

  7. #7
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    On the Data sheet:

    You need to bump up the "cRatio" fields cap to like 5 or something [ MIN(X/Y,2.25) ] : Once per hand, four times per row

    You need to bump up the "Cap Max" fields cap to 3.75 for non-crits and 4.75 for crits [ MIN(MAX(X,Y),3) ] : Twice per hand, four times per row

    That is it, as far as I can remember.

  8. #8
    Chram
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    Sylph

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Ridill
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    Lol so 1hd and archery are the same now? And 2hd higher than marksmanship. Da fuq. As if we needed even more reason not to use rng

  10. #10
    Chram
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    Edit: Nevermind

  11. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    On the Data sheet:

    You need to bump up the "cRatio" fields cap to like 5 or something [ MIN(X/Y,2.25) ] : Once per hand, four times per row

    You need to bump up the "Cap Max" fields cap to 3.75 for non-crits and 4.75 for crits [ MIN(MAX(X,Y),3) ] : Twice per hand, four times per row

    That is it, as far as I can remember.
    Don't know if I should ask about this here or the Spreadsheet thread, but whatever- after I tried doing this on the Ninja Spreadsheet, apparently something broke because if I plug in a bunch of Minuets, DPS actually starts going down.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just dumb and edited the wrong thing, but I don't think I did.

  12. #12
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kincard View Post
    Don't know if I should ask about this here or the Spreadsheet thread, but whatever- after I tried doing this on the Ninja Spreadsheet, apparently something broke because if I plug in a bunch of Minuets, DPS actually starts going down.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just dumb and edited the wrong thing, but I don't think I did.
    Think there's a few more cells you have to change. Find the cells for "avg non-crit/crit pDIF". There should be a reference to the High Cap % cell that's multiplied by 3 or so, change the multiplier to 3.25 noncrit/4.25 crit to match the Cap Max cells. On the sheet I'm currently looking at there's also a *1.02 multiplier at the end, which I suspect should be *1.025 (final pDIF randomizer, averaged out).

  13. #13

    Thanks. Tried your suggestion and Minuets seem to work fine now, but Chaos Roll still makes the sheet go crazy (Probably using the same one as you btw).

  14. #14
    Chram
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    If you upload your sheet, I could take a look real quick.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Chram
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    Hmm. I'm not seeing Chaos Roll cause any strange results, but I'll look over the changed pdif areas anyway.

    Under the Cap Max rows (one for each hand), the 3.75 should be 3.25 under non-crit, and the 4.75 should be 4.25 under crit. You've got the Avg Crit/Non-crit PDIF rows correct, though.

    Under the Throwing section, in the cRatio row (B183 and C183), change the 3 to 3.25.

    Everything else looks good to me. Are you still getting Chaos Roll oddities?

  17. #17

    Made the changes you pointed out but yeah, I'm still getting the weird thing where DPS goes down if I plug in too many attack buffs (Plugged in all 3 Minuets, then toggled either Berserk or Chaos Roll and the sheet poops its pants). It doesn't happen on higher level targets like Tojil, but it happens on Trivial monsters.

    I mean, eh, I think for all practical purposes it's working just fine now, just kinda weird that happens.

  18. #18
    xXNyteFyreXx420Sharingan
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    I can't replicate this at all. Nevermind, just had to try the THF spreadsheet instead... that one's a huge mess, but maybe it'll help us narrow things down.

    Melee DPS matches, rounds/WS matches, WS damage differs... SA hit matches, SA round differs, SAWS damage differs, ditto for the TA page.

    Link above doesn't work for me. At a guess, when you experience this issue, do you see a value exceeding 100% in the high cap % cells on the data page?

    Either way, shoot me a copy of your sheet as well. I can't replicate it on my copies of the BLU, RUN, or NIN sheets, so whatever's causing it probably lies in the differences between my changes and whatever's on yours + the THF sheet.

  19. #19

    http://www.filedropper.com/dpscalculator-nin2

    Sorry for the late reply. lolweekdays

  20. #20
    Chram
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    I'm still not seeing the strange values you're mentioning; three minuets gives set 1 632 dps, adding chaos gives 743, and adding berserk on top of that gives 822. If I arbitrarily cap your wratio by adding 5000 attack, your dps goes to 1465.

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