Powerman 5000 Accuses XIV Composer, Masayoshi Soken, of Plagiarism for the Sephirot theme

[6souls]

Powerman calling XIV out

Really? Got to say that the level of unimaginative theft that was used in creating this music for ‪#‎finalfantasyXIV‬ is mind blowing! I mean, this is When Worlds Collide! Using something as inspiration is one thing but a straight up rip off is another! Did they really think no one would notice? ‪#‎FFXIV‬ ‪#‎ripoff‬

To clarify, this is music from the game. If it was a song made by a fan, we wouldn’t care.

https://www.facebook.com/officialpow...63822686963071

Naoki Yoshida responds

Regarding the Music for the 2nd Phase of Containment Bay S1T7

I have read through your comments concerning the BGM for the 2nd phase of the Containment Bay S1T7 battle with Sephirot, and I would like to personally explain how the track was conceived.

As most FINAL FANTASY fans already know, Sephirot (the Fiend) is a legacy boss character who originally appeared in FINAL FANTASY VI. When considering how to portray Sephirot’s return in FINAL FANTASY XIV, we decided to pay tribute to FFVI by working VI’s “Battle to the Death” track into the Containment Bay S1T7’s first phase, while opting to create an FFXIV original for the second.

Building upon the motif of Sephirot as a representation of the World Tree, to create this FINAL FANTASY XIV original track, we further incorporated story-driven themes of death and a warped obsession with life, all while utilizing a musical genre─industrial rock─which we believed would provide substantial emphasis to the message.

Industrial rock is a popular genre that can be further divided into numerous sub-genres. Countless songs from these genres have been released worldwide, and I have been made aware of an allegation regarding similarities between an existing track and the track created for the 2nd phase of Containment Bay S1T7. However, track composer Masayoshi Soken, has also stated to me that he was unaware of the track in question while working on this FINAL FANTASY track.

We hope that you continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV battle content.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...65#post3589465

Reddit user, Lemagex, explains the issue in detail

Take my opinion as you will, as a musician of only 17 years.
The songs are as “Similar” to eachother as both are similar to all “Nu Metal” and “Grunge” released since 2001.
The drum track? Different tempo, different instruments, different pattern, different beat. PM5K sticks to the 4×4 pattern of Kick | HiHat | Kick+Snare | Hihat | Variating every so often but very little. and the XIV track seems to ignore anything not producing bass for most of it, using more loose and open hats. sometimes at 4×4 sometimes 2×2 sometimes otherwise.
The guitar? The only similarity if you can even call it that is the 2 chord progression (lol)
The intros? XIV is more bass, PM5K is more treble.
The vocals? XIV is more lower range hz and spread out, PM5K is more higher range and closer together with screaming, the only words the two songs share in common are “World’s” “Taking over” nothing else.
The song overall is a different tempo, the XIV track is deeper and has more of an industrial feel to it.
I’ve been a fan of PM5K for a lonnnnnnnnng time, but this is making me have serious concern for their hearing abilities.
Personal conclusion: Calling this a “Rip off” of PM5K is like calling Gangnam Style a ripoff of Baby. LOL

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_5000/d0d1mvj

[Alkar]

This was blown way out of proportion.

[haroldsaxon]

I think they have a point. It would have been one heck of a coincidence if Soken hadn't heard that song before.

Its pretty funny watching people defend SE blindly though. I had someone tell me that I'm not allowed to criticize SE because I play the game, and SE are allowed to take songs from artists that aren't relevant.

[Luthia]

I had someone tell me that I'm not allowed to criticize SE because I play the game, and SE are allowed to take songs from artists that aren't relevant.

All your songs are now belong to us, amirite?

[ronin sparthos]

I recall when MGS2s Main Theme and the entire Budokai soundtrack came under fire for plagiarism. But those were clearer cut and in the case of Budokai so many artists were copied it was impossible to deny lifting occurred. I hope Soken doesn't suffer though since Sephirot P2 is awesome.

The music sounds similar during the initial startup but become distinctly different as the song progresses. But im not a music copyright person.

[Hitoshura]

Exactly... it sounds similar. That isn't "theft". What a bunch of morons. It's not like Soken is on tour selling millions of albums like some sort of rockstar.

Theme is very good, despite some similarities with mentioned song.

[Bigsyke]

It doesn't matter if the song is different after 20 or 45 seconds (numbers repeatedly mentioned). Having the opening of two different pieces of music has been sufficient to obtain a copyright infringement verdict in the past.

It also doesn't matter how relevant an artist is. Getting copied without being credited is a kick in the balls for an artist.

Ultimately though, I don't think this is as much of a similarity as the Moggle Mog thing and This is Halloween.

[Silenka]

I think they have a point. It would have been one heck of a coincidence if Soken hadn't heard that song before.

Its pretty funny watching people defend SE blindly though. I had someone tell me that I'm not allowed to criticize SE because I play the game, and SE are allowed to take songs from artists that aren't relevant.

I pretty much agree with this. Listening to both tracks, I couldn't help but feel that if I was listening to them in a vacuum with no biases whatsoever, I would say one was a remix of the other. They are incredibly similar.

This is not, by any means, a unique situation. I follow the Japanese music industry and every month there are complaints of plagiarism by some Japanese artist from some other artist (usually in another part of the world). In many cases, like this one, the songs sound so similar to each other that it's very difficult to make an argument that there wasn't some kind of influence or plagiarism involved. And this happens to artists I listen to and actually like quite often. I don't really know why this is the case, but it seems to be a very common occurrence in the Japanese music industry. So I'm honestly not very surprised to see a claim like this surface.

Now I'm not saying that Soken knowingly plagiarized. The dude is talented as fuck and shouldn't need to. It could be an insane coincidence, or he could have heard the song before and his dimly recalled memories of it influenced his composition of this track. Those things happen. But I also have no trouble accepting the conjecture that he was using a specific track of a genre of music he wasn't too familiar with as a basis for his composition.

The truth is, we can never know for 100% sure how this track was created. We can only suppose, and take Yoshi-P or Soken's word for it.

[Alkar]

I pretty much agree with this. Listening to both tracks, I couldn't help but feel that if I was listening to them in a vacuum with no biases whatsoever, I would say one was a remix of the other. They are incredibly similar.

Then you need to listen again because they're not. There are similarities because they belong to the same sub-genre but that's it, you'd find a lot of tracks that are "similar". And that's not plagiarism.

[Gilgameshx]

Then you need to listen again because they're not. There are similarities because they belong to the same sub-genre but that's it, you'd find a lot of tracks that are "similar". And that's not plagiarism.

It would be like trying to defend vanilla ice and say he didn't rip off under pressure for his beginning riff.

The intro to pm5k and sephirot theme are too similar

[Kirin]

Spider posted a reply on PM5K's page now as well.

UPDATE on the Final Fantasy music controversy.
Fascinated by the level of interest in this. Opinions range from total agreement to extreme hatred towards the subject (and me apparently)
So crazy.
The original post was a two sentence observation about a piece of music that was way too similar to be coincidence.
Since then it has been taken as some sort of declaration of war. Oh, internet...
Anyway. There's no lawsuit, there's no cry for attention or publicity. Just an observation.
Going back to my normal M.O of not participating in social media. Thanx for the fun!
See ya on the road in March/April
-Spider

"HAHA GUYS JUST KIDDING"

Huge fan of the band growing up during my Korn/Manson/Metallica/Etc phase in high school. Probably the best live acoustic version of Radiohead's "Creep" I will ever hear. To me, someone with only fandom of both subjects involved at one point or another and no professional musical experience; the songs sound similar but a *far* cry from "straight up ripoff". It's not like any two pieces music from within that genre never sound the same, and this was indeed blown way out of proportion but thats what happens when you come off as blatantly wrong on the internet.

[6souls]

[Qeomash]

I thought that, with King Moggle Mog, it was based on Mog's Theme from VI and that Uematsu said that, yes, Nightmare Before Christmas inspired his creation of the original Mog's Theme.

[Lokus]

All I know is that as soon as I heard the start of P2 in Sephirot, I thought of Powerman 5000 and that specific song.

[Greedouw]

law student here, lul

They sound pretty similar, but I think that if this even went to court, SE could be protected under a parody/satire defense under the First Amendment...

If the song has been sufficiently transformed enough so that it's "different" from the original, it could pass... oh, btw, even parody/satire under commercial use is protected (pretty sure)

Just my two cents

[arus2001]

Eh, seems different enough to me and I'm not really invested in XIV or that band. Or at the very least, not the same level of ripoff as the earlier mentioned Vanilla Ice song.

[Ksandra]

This still amazes me, and I always assumed they got away with it because of Disney and Squares friendship. But that's ok 'cause I love both songs. XD


As to the one in question, I do get the similarity. Guy doesn't want to sue though, so there is no reason to get outraged on the internet over it. Considering the moogle song, I wouldn't put it past SE to do this, though.

[Lucavi]

Dangerously cheesy... I mean close. Dangerously close.

[Seha]

and SE are allowed to take songs from artists that aren't relevant

Please shoot whoever said this. Such idiocy.

[Twilight Sky]

I'm just waiting for someone to rip from Soken, so the shitstorm ensues, and everyone goes "HEY HOLD UP NOW, REMEMBER ...."