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  1. #1
    Old Odin
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    Song Duration Job Points

    Can anybody explain how exactely the song duration bonuses get added up together? I need an exact number but I'm struggling.
    Troubadour bonus is multiplicative with song duration, not addittive I think?
    What about the for the +20 seconds from Lullaby JPs? Do they get added before? After?
    Marcato's +20 seconds get added at the end after all other calculations, afaik.


    tl;dr
    With +5 Lullaby Bonus (90 base duration), 98% song duration, +20secs from Marcato JPs, +20secs from Lullaby JPs and 2x from Troubadour, how long would Lullaby last?

  2. #2
    Chram
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    Sylph

    I'm not a bard, but if the calculation order is similar to that of enhancing magic, it'd likely be: (90+20+20)*1.98*2.0 = 8:34

  3. #3
    BG Content
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    I bet: 60*2.48*2+20+20 = 5:36

    I know the 60*2.48 is correct, but I don't know where the duration bonuses are added.

  4. #4
    Old Odin
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    I'm not sure about the 20 seconds for Lullaby bonus, but pretty confident the 20 from Marcato are just a static +20 which get added at the end.
    In theory the order should be:
    (Base_song_duration + +song_bonus_duration) * song_duration_stat) * 2
    The x2 is Troubadour bonus, which just doubles whatever your nontroub duration is, except for marcato bonus.
    I suspect the Lullaby one is the same as Marcato.

    I was getting ~345 seconds with a base duration of 60, 128% duration bonus, 2x from Marcato, +20 lullaby, +20 Marcato.
    I can't understand where these 345 came from because in no way I was able to produce a number close to that with theoretical calculations =/

  5. #5
    Old Merits
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    I would guess that, like haste, you're losing a few points to differences when converting percents to fractions. Knock a couple percent off due to that, and you get pretty close to that 345 number with ((base * duration bonus) + lullaby merits + marcato) *2.

    Edit: you'd have to lose 6-7% to make that work out, which isn't likely unless almost every slot is filled with +duration gear. Though iirc you had to have 106% spell interrupt to cap that back in the day, so I suppose it's possible to lose that much with percentages that high.

  6. #6
    Sea Torques
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    Lullaby and Clarion Call JPs take into account Troubadour, Marcato doesn't.
    With Lullaby+5, Song duration +98%, 20/20 in Lullaby/Marcato and NT you should get 356. With 20/20 CC you should get 436.
    ((60+30+58+20+40)*2)+20 = 436

  7. #7
    Old Odin
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    My ~345 secs came from an environment where I was using Daurdabla (128% duration bonus, 66seconds base duration instead of 90)

    (66*2.28*2)+20+20 = ~341 seconds

    My timestamp (no battlemod) said 347, my LSmates said it was 345 for them. It's not exactely the same but it's pretty close, could be some sort of approximation somewhere?
    It is a calculation for the following setup:
    Song+1 (66 base duration)
    128% song duration bonus (98% + 30% from Daurdabla)
    Troubadour (2x)
    +20 (Lullaby Job Points)
    +20 (Marcato)

    But this is in contrast with Tachi saying that Lullaby JPs (20seconds) benefit from Troubadour.
    Do you also know if those 20 seconds benefit from Song Duration? I.e. do they get added before troubadour but AFTER song duration? Or before that?

  8. #8
    BG Content
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    Lakshmi
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    In order to get the accurate time for any duration, you need to use battlemod and measure from the "____ is asleep" message to the "____ is no longer asleep." Even then you can be 1 second off, but it's as accurate as it gets.

  9. #9
    Old Odin
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    More tests with Bmod now.

    First setup: 346 seconds (+/- 1)
    Setup details: Base duration 66, duration bonus 128%, Troubadour, Marcato, Max Lullaby JPs

    Second setup: 357 seconds (+/- 1)
    Setup details: Base duration 90, duration bonus 98%, Troubadour, Marcato, Max Lullaby JPs

    Third setup: 113 seconds (+/- 1)
    Setup details: Base duration 90, duration bonus 5% (Gift), Max Lullaby JPs, no other buff

    Fourth setup: 169 seconds
    Setup details: Base duration 90, duration bonus 98%, Max Lullaby JPs, no other buff


    From this small test I think I can get that the duration bonus, or at least the one from gift, only applies to the base duration of the song (60), not the enhanced duration that you get from "Song +".
    (60*1.05)+30+20 = 113 seconds
    (60*1.98)+30+20 = 168.8 seconds

    So after finding this out I went back to my old calculations of Test setup 1 and 2 and got the following numbers
    (((60*2.28)+6+20)*2)+20 = 345.6
    (((60*1.98)+30+20)*2)+20 = 357.6


    In light of this I think I found out the correct formula which is:
    (((song_base_duration * duration_bonus) + lullaby_JP_bonus) x2 (troubadour)) + marcato_bonus

    duration_bonus is the bonus you get from gear (with 98% bonus, duration_bonus becomes 1.98). Need to add the duration bonus you get from "song+" stat too. Each "+1" is a 10%. So with 98% in gear/gifts and +5 Song duration_bonus becomes 2.48

    A few points now
    • The Duration bonus you get from "song+" stats, like on instrument and some AF pieces, does NOT get considered for the song_duration bonus
    • Lullaby JP bonus does get indeed get accounted before Troubadour (which means the +20 seconds becomes +40 during Troub)
    • Marcato JP bonus does NOT get accounted before Troubadour
    • Clarion Call JP bonus ges accounted before Troubadour, meaning those +40 seconds become +80


    Can anybody doublecheck my data plz? But seems pretty solid to me.
    Now the joy of implementing an aftercast custom function that announces the duration of my lullaby according to the gear that was used lol

  10. #10
    BG Content
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    Instead of treating "song_plus_bonus" as a separate term, treat it as +10~50% duration and add it into the rest of the duration bonus term. Then your equation would be the same as Tachi's.

  11. #11
    Old Odin
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    Are we sure the song_plus_bonus is a % based on the song's base duration and not a fixed number? Well... I think it is yeah, 10% for each +1.
    And yeah that fits with your 2.48 compared to my 1.98.

    Thanks!


    edit:
    Made a custom function that keeps all of the above mentioned variables and creates multiple party messages warning on the time left before it expires. Tested and it works perfectly.
    Thanks for the help & support guys :D

  12. #12
    CoP Dynamis
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    sorry for the noob question, not a bard myself but trying to help the bards in LS figure out their lullaby duration. is the 98% assuming dual wielding carn with kali? i keep adding up to 48% with kali and 93% with carn, assuming single wielding. am i missing a piece of gear?

    for reference, aside from weapon I find empyrean neck (10%), empyrean reforge +1 body (12%), marduk's shalwar (10%), af reforge +1 feet (11%) to be sources of song duration enhancement.

    wait nvm i found the 1200 JP gift...

  13. #13
    Old Odin
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    No, dualwielding Carns with Kali I get 103%.
    98% comes from
    Carnwenhan (50%)
    Aoidos neck (10%)
    Fili body +1 (12%)
    Marduk's Shalwar +1 (10%)
    Brioso slippers +1 (11%)
    1200 JP Gift (5%)

    Kali would be 5% more, can DW it for 10% of course instead of the 50(55) from Carns
    Then with Gjallarhorn you get song+4 which furtherly converts into duration+40%.
    Brioso hands +1 have Lullaby+1 which converts to another +10% duration.

    Then add +20 seconds duration from Lullaby Job Points.
    Then +40 from Clarion Call if you gonna use it (before Troub)
    Then +20 for Marcato (after Troubadour)

    Think that's all

  14. #14
    Smells like Onions
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    Friend brought me to this thread and I can confirm your formula works. I don't have 1200 gift but the formula works out

    (((song_base_duration * duration_bonus) + lullaby_JP_bonus) x2 (troubadour)) + marcato_bonus

    BG wiki says base horde lullaby is 30s but im sure thats wrong and its at least 60s
    (((60*1.93[because i'm gimp and don't have 1200 gift or mythic]) + 20) x2 ) +20
    = 291.6 = 4:51.6
    I had 4:52 calculated w/ battlemod before coming here

    GJ I tried to figure out this formula w/ a friend a long time ago and we just gave up

  15. #15
    Melee Summoner
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    Updated for more recent gear and also duration for both clarion call and not clarion call for both kali and carn:
    song durations inyanga and kali if not carn:
    with Carn:
    ((60 [base] + 30 [lullaby + 5] + 61 [song duration +103%] + 20 [lullaby JP] + 40 [Clarion Call JP]) * 2 [Troub]) + 20 [Marcato] = 442 seconds = 7:22

    without Carn (-45%):
    ((60 [base] + 30 [lullaby + 5] + 34 [song duration +58%] + 20 [lullaby JP] + 40 [Clarion Call JP]) * 2 [Troub]) + 20 [Marcato] = 388 seconds = 6:28

    with Carn without CC:
    ((60 [base] + 30 [lullaby + 5] + 61 [song duration +103%] + 20 [lullaby JP]) * 2 [Troub]) + 20 [Marcato] = 362 seconds = 6:02

    without Carn (-45%) without CC:
    ((60 [base] + 30 [lullaby + 5] + 34 [song duration +58%] + 20 [lullaby JP]) * 2 [Troub]) + 20 [Marcato] = 308 seconds = 5:08

    103% comes from
    Carnwenhan (50%)
    Aoidos neck (10%)
    Fili body +1 (12%)
    Inyanga Shalwar +1 (15%)
    Brioso slippers +1 (11%)
    1200 JP Gift (5%)

    Lullaby +4 = ghorn or blurred harp +1
    lullaby +1 brioso cuffs +1

    Also very important, if your bard uses soul voice, MARCATO 20s DURATION BOOST WILL NOT APPLY AS SV OVERWRITES MARCATO.

    Sleep II will overwrite Lullaby II. This is why it is used on albumen you can sleep II early, 1:20 after that then breakga and sleep II will wear 10s later giving the BLM that slept it a message sleep II wore, then relullaby with 20s of break on window.

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