WS Damage Testing

[Pandum]

http://awabi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ogame/1334767343/
posts 178/184 tested phorcys WSD bonus to only work on the first hit.
used requiescat and true strike while dual wielding on campaign towers
ogier's work the same way

[Jem]

Would be a massive pain to test I think but does that mean it's likely that the same also applies to Relic WS'es with their WS Damage bonus when they DA/TA/QA?

How would you go about testing that? Forcing DA on WAR or something?

[Neisan]

I'm guessing using Nin yags in Castle O, stripping shadows then weaponskilling at 100 TP would also work.

Er, for multihitters anyway.

[dasva]

Welll except I thought that there was some testing that showed the first hit that gets thru the shadows counts as the first hit of the ws. I'd say do a little math on a multi hit one or force extra hits. The difference in dmg between just first hit getting bonus and all would be big with 99 weapon

[Jem]

Well no Relic WS is naturally a multihit WS so it would have to be a Mythic to test it that way unless forcing extra hits. I guess dual wielding would work too but I don't have a single handed relic to try that. Not to mention that wouldn't be 100% conclusive as it could just be the non-relic weapon hit not getting the bonus rather than any extra hit.

I have Ragna and Apoc so can possibly test but my WAR is only 90 (so can't equip Ragna), so would need to level it before I could test anything in an effective manner.

[Yugl]

In the post and RQ, you specifically mention first hit as opposed to offhand. Is that to say that multi-hits work but off-hands hits do not work?

[Ophannus]

Wouldn't be farfetched that it only affected first hit when things like this only affect first hits usually:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ght_Gorget.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Soil_Belt.png
So if you look at the wording of these and compare it to this, it's not surprising:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...cysKorazin.PNG

Btw is it certain that Phorcys and Ogier increase WS damage by a static % or could it be fTP like Gorgets/Belts? Also maybe like Gorg's/Belts it carries across all hits for Stardiver and shit.

[VZX01]

Wouldn't be farfetched that it only affected first hit when things like this only affect first hits usually:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ght_Gorget.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Soil_Belt.png
So if you look at the wording of these and compare it to this, it's not surprising:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...cysKorazin.PNG

Btw is it certain that Phorcys and Ogier increase WS damage by a static % or could it be fTP like Gorgets/Belts? Also maybe like Gorg's/Belts it carries across all hits for Stardiver and shit.

The 1st 2 items effect 1st hit only because the rule of old multi-hit WS. Jishnu's and most of new WS have the exemption to that rule.

[Raelia]

I think that was partly a question: Do they behave as gorget/belt and affect all hits of mirrored-fTP weaponskills?

[Masamune]

I'm interested in Ophannus 1st question: How one would test and affirm with certainty "increases WS damage" is modifying fTP, and not a simple WSdmg % at end of dmg calculations ? (or vice versa)

[Churchill]

If it added 0.21fTP it would exactly mirror the original testing done with Apex Arrow.

That would mean though, with a typical Ukko's build, in the same test:

normal
156+107+25*2.25*2=1296

fTP bonus
156+((210*0.6*0.85)) 107WSC +25 *2.25 pDIF *2.21fTP = 1432

7%
156+107+25*2.25*2*1.07=1386

Not sure if I did fSTR correctly, but it wouldn't really effect the outcome in this example. If it were fTP, as postulated, then the increase for Ukko's would be 10.5%, and that would obviously be even higher for lower fTP weapon skills such as Resolution. I would think that it would be a static increase, unless of course it really is only the first hit that is effected. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if it was fTP. Knowing SE, it's just a flat 7% that only effects the first hit and it's the second greatest troll next to Folhardi's Ring.

edit: for fails

For example, Ragnarok99

143+178+23*2.25*0.71875=556

143+178+23*2.25*0.92875=718

Or a 29% increase to the first hit...or all hits...

Edit2: Oh man, if it is only 7% for the first hit it's a fucking 1% increase for resolution. Troll on SE.

[Churchill]

Went and did some Sidewinders

Sidewinder

125D+38fSTR2+42WSC*3*5=3075

If Phorcys was fTP: 125+38+42*3*5.21=3204(4%)

Results:
Non-Phorcys: 3075

Phorcys: 3290(7%)

[Churchill]

Relic WS's 25% bonus on additional hits:
There was also a question of whether or not the Relic +WSDMG applied to additional hits, if in fact Phorcys and Ogiers do not.

I ran out to Abyssea, killed rabbits until I got 5 miss+DA's.

I was wearing Gorgetx2, Phorcys, and Ogiers.
I had 120AGI and 144INT, used LR+Zerk so pDIF was capped.

Regular Cata:
154+25+88*2.25*2.95*1.10*1.25= 2436

DA w/no WSDMG transferring
154+25+88*2.25*1.0=600

DA w/Ogiers_Phorcys
154+25+88*2.25*1.0*1.10=660

DA w/Relic bonus
154+25+88*2.25*1.0*1.25=750

DA w/Relic+Gear WSDMG
154+25+88*2.25*1.0*1.10*1.25=826


The miss+DA Cata were 678 / 669 / 682 / 691 / 674

[Foldypaws]

Looks like Ogiers and Phorcys transfer, but Relic Bonus doesn't. (you forgot about the secondary multiplier, making your second case range from 660-693)

[diasetsu]

I went out and did my own testing with shura kabuto+1, and 99 glanzfaust.

Test 1- 177str,154vit, 447 h2h skill, Razed Ruin, Gnarled Horn, Scorpion Queen Atmas, 99 Glanz
51weapon+3+14fstr+49skill+140WSC= 257 Weapon Skill Damage
257*3.15*1.3(RR crit dmg)*1=1051 damage
257*3.15*1.3*1*1.3(Fury 30%)=1366 damage

Max Damage should be 2417 if Fury Bonus only applies to 1st Hit/Main Hand

Observed Data: 2558,2670,2425,2500,2490,2566,2696,2658,2664,2555, 2691,2684,2598

Conclusion- Mythic +30% applies to the whole WS, additional hits included.

Test 2-177str,154vit, 447 h2h skill, Razed Ruin, Gnarled Horn, Scorpion Queen Atmas, used 99 Spharai+shura kabuto+1

258 Weapon Skill Damage

1055damage without shura WS increase, 1086 with
Max Damage of 2141 if Shura only applies to 1st Hit.

30 Weaponskills ranging from 1895-2137, never breaking the 2141 damage I was looking for.

Conclusion- Shura Kabuto +1's Weapon skill Damage+ most likely only effects the 1st hit of a weaponskill.

[Churchill]

It doesn't make sense that Mythic's do transfer if Relic's don't, except that maybe because there are inherent multi-hit Mythic WS, and no multi-hit Relic WS, this effects their overall coding.

[diasetsu]

I'll try with Final Heaven when Nascar is over. Since I don't need to miss to see the extra hit like you do, it will be much faster and easier. There is a chance you were just hitting the lower end of pDif and were getting the 25%. All your 5 Weaponskills could still be atleast a 2.0pDif. 667 damage is 2.0 * 267 * 1.25. Your sample size isn't exactly stellar.

[diasetsu]

Alright, did some testing with Final Heaven

118 weapon from damage +75 damage from WSC= 193 Weapon Skill Damage.
I am not quite sure on the exact pDif cap for 1-handers so went with 2.5 for my estimates.
1st hit max= 193*2.5*3*1.4= 2024 or 2025 depending on if pDif or fTP is multiplied 1st.
Offhand or additional hit max= 193*2.5=482 if no bonus
Offhand or additional hit max= 193*2.5*1.4= 674 if bonus applies.

Damage over 2507 implies relic bonus applies to all hits:
1st Hit+offhand damage(2hit)= 2035,2207,1952,2426, 2533,2354,1981,1944,2502,2158,2056,2195, 2539, 2081

1st Hit+offhand miss+DA(2hit)= 2249

1st Hit miss+offhand hit+DA(2hit)= 1074

1st Hit+offhand hit+DA(3hit)= 2992,2779,2673,2636

1st Hit+offhand hit+2hits(4hit)= 3278,3168,3669

The 2533,2539 and 2992 Damage Final Heaven's could all possibly be a result of pDif capping higher(2.52?).

The 1074 and 3669 can not however be possible without the 40% applying to all hits.
The 1074 would need a pDif of 2.78 which is definitely outside of 1-hander's range.
The 4-hit 3669 damage WS would need somewhere around a 2.63 pDif to be possible.

Conclusion: Relic Weapon Skills Damage Multiplier applies to all hits

[Churchill]

I didn't mention it, but I was hitting Cata's last night for much higher than expected damage on non-DA instances.

I hit as high as 33xx, with many in the range of 2800-2900.

So, since it could easily mean that the damage I saw was not from Phorcys and purely from Cata, what would be a good way to test additional hits? I could do Spiral hell or Gekko etc, just WS until I get a DA proc that does enough damage to justify the extra 1.1 bonus?

[diasetsu]

I don't know what max 2-hander pDif is, but yes you would just have to calculate what max damage Cata is, and what DA hit damage is without the 10% bonus. Any number higher than that would show it applies to DAs. Conversely you could set pDif to 1.25-1.5 so that minimum would be 1.0. If you see any WS under 1.1 pDif it would prove that it does not apply to additional hits. I'd say try 1st test for like 30 WS and if you don't see a higher number try test 2.