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  1. #1
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    I need some details about Sneak Attack

    There's some ambiguity I found in oldwiki and BG-wiki about how Sneak Attack works.
    Can anybody help me clear this up please?
    I'm interested in details on two components of Sneak Attack
    1) Makes next hit 100% Crit
    2) Makes next hit 100% accuracy

    That happens when the requirements are met, of course.
    Still, I was always led to think that both these bonuses apply only to the one, next hit. Not to any multiattack (DA/TA/QA etc) that may proc and not to any further hit past the first of multihit weaponskill. That's the way I was taught since the old days, likely before Wikis even existed.

    So, is the info I got correct or not? (seems to be confirmed by oldwiki but not entirely by BG-wiki which is a bit vague?)

  2. #2
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    I know you don't get 100% acc, on multi hit, and I don't think even off hand does. And nothing but the first hit gets 100% crit rate.

  3. #3
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    I wrote post in a confusing way. The off-hand hit thing was actually part of the ambiguity (Wiki includes it, but I always thought it wasn't included instead, just like additional hits on multihit WSs and multiattack procs)
    Editing post now.

  4. #4
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    I don't know whether the offhand hit is guaranteed. I didn't think it was, but that information is almost as old as the wiki. I do know that some WSs have 100% Acc forced for both hits by Sneak Attack (thinking specifically of Sturmwind). There's no reference on the sturmwind page, but the test showing that was done in Eastern Altepa against goblins by the OP, perhaps by Searain.

  5. #5
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    This is going off old experience but after having mained thf for a very very long time back in 75 cap days, here's what I recall (things may apply differently as thf sub job using SA but doubtful).

    When dual wielding if you meet the SA criteria (behind the mob, etc.) main hand and off hand were guaranteed 100% accuracy but the SA multiplier only applies to the main hand hit. WHen using it in a ws, the same applies, but when using a multi hit ws, only the first hit of the ws gets the SA bonus and none of the other swings get the 100% accuracy, but the offhand will still connect 100%.

    Similar things happen when used with a one handed weapon (no offhand to worry about here), the first hit is 100% accurate and gets the SA bonus but all others get normal acc applied and receive no SA bonus. I've never experimented much with it on other jobs than thief or using one handed multi hit ws (only ever really used true strike). True strike could triple attack but again, only the initial hit got the huge SA bonus, but the extra hits did add in nice dmg that was definitely noticeable on skeletons.

    This is going off of memory from quite some time ago but I doubt it has been changed drastically and the few times I played thief 6 months or so ago didnt seem to show anything different but I never paid much attention. Back in old merit party days there was an expected tp return from each ws and the off hand hit was always factored in and any triple attack was gravy and with things like DE I knew when I missed part of the ws but always got the full tp return of main and offhand.

  6. #6
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    Your data is consistant with the oldwiki information (and not really completely consistant with BGwiki info...)
    Aside from the offhand hit benefitting from 100% accuracy thing (which I ignored) the rest is also consistant with what I believed (Crit/SA bonus only applying to first hit, no multiattack, no successive hits of mulithit WS).
    To be fair I'm surprised I'm even here discussing this, I've always believed that to be pretty common knowledge...


    Still, there's what Byrth said.
    Byrth is that the only exception?
    I'm a bit skeptic to believe SE applied SneakAttack rules independently on a ws-by-ws basis, maybe the cause of that result is the unpredictable result of some other bug or spaghetti code? Maybe Sturmwind is actually just one hit and our formula is wrong? Maybe something else? I dunno.

  7. #7
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    IIRC it also applied to Iron Tempest too. Sturmwind is two hits based on TP return. It was just treated as an oddity at the time, and made GA WAR/THF slightly more acceptable in low level xp parties.

    https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/47...tack-Sturmwind

    Also, his explanation is entirely consistent with the bgwiki info.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Also, his explanation is entirely consistent with the bgwiki info.
    Yes and no.
    I meant on BG wiki things are a bit more vague.
    There is no mention about multiattack procs for Crit and Accuracy bonus.
    Furthermore no mention about Crit working or not on multihit WSs, Crit on offhand hit.
    The multihit WS mention is missing for the accuracy bonus too.

    If the info on oldwiki is correct (aside from Iron Tempest/Sturmwind "exceptions"? There might be more, truth be said) then the one on BG is "incomplete"? Maybe this is a better word than "inconsistant" I guess.

  9. #9
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    If you think something needs to be changed, change it. I've learned nothing from this thread that I didn't already know from the Sneak Attack page.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    If you think something needs to be changed, change it.
    I feel like I might make a bad service to the page, knowing my skills with this stuff, but sure I'll try.


    I've learned nothing from this thread that I didn't already know from the Sneak Attack page.
    Do you mean "that you already knew yourself" or "that you could read from the BG page"?
    If you meant the first sure, granted that it seems irrelevant information for the purpose of the thread, but ok.
    If you meant the second then it's simply not true. All the information I listed in my previous post is missing from the BG page, so that would be all new stuff you would have learned if all your knowledge was limited to what was written on the BG page.

  11. #11
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    There, updated the page, but I suck with this stuff so if someone wants to sort things better that would be pretty welcome!

  12. #12
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    Does the entire page show up for you normally, or perhaps not do you understand that "attack" is not the same as "attack round"?

    This is what mine looks like:


    So yeah, the Sturmwind stuff wasn't on the page because I'm not 100% sure it isn't just a glitch from 2007 that may already be fixed. It's more just FFXI trivia at this point, like the fact that Sneak Attack has accidentally worked from the front following two updates and given its DEX bonus regardless your job following one.

  13. #13
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    I find the page much clearer now, previous format was leading up to lots of ambiguity and unclear things, reason why discussions started in my linkshell and thread was posted.
    With clearer information none of that would've happened, imho.

    Agree to disagree? I still stand by my opinion.

  14. #14
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    I rewrote it in a way that makes more sense and should be so unambiguous even for players that have level 1 THFs.

  15. #15
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    Excellent edit Byrth! Love it now, think it's very clear and handles all sort of possible ambiguity and does so in a much clearer way than the slightly confusing format (not talking about content) of oldwiki.
    Love it! Thanks :D

  16. #16
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    the 100% accuracy bonus applies on DA/TA/QA procs though, unless it was changed at some point for some reason.

    If you dont believe me, i'll go AC/SA some mandies in adoulin with an ark scythe (or some other 0 skill weapon), or you can do it yourself.

  17. #17
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    If it works with Assassin's Charge I'd be more leaning to thing that AC is "special" and somehow works perfectly in synergy with SA (wether SE intended that to be, or wether it's a bug that they didn't notice) more than SA acc bonus working perfectly with the "regular" sources of DA/TA/QA etc.

    I think there have been several reports (granted nothing very conclusive) about that. You can see it on stuff like Erynis as well, it's the perfect scenario. You go there with virtually zero acc buffs (20% floored acc) and exploit SA to make Rudra 100%.

    So in the end, if you want to provide any test for Assassin's Charge that would be very welcome, but IF it works, I'd still think it's somethin unique about AC.

  18. #18
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    Why would AC be special? It has never offered any acc bonus or anything other than forcing a TA (or QA with the auged relic)

  19. #19
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    In lieu of this thread and things like sturmwind, and some of suspicions I can't confirm in anyway of last stand, I'm wondering if there is a type of 2 hit weaponskill that is considered one? This would have implications for fotia gear and wsd gear. A friend for instance used all crappy augs but wsd for last stand on herc and got amazing results with it... and yet fotia does do more for it than AGI stuff I equip and if I kill something low HP I do less damage (but it seems to be significantly less not load as much into the first hit as other ws?). All this is just suspicions nothing I can confirm but maybe someone else knows something about it or can just say I'm cooking up crazy.

  20. #20

    Isn't Shark Bite a 2 hit weapon skill that is only considered one?

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