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  1. #21

    Of all the problems Diadem had, having rewards that were actually useful wasn't one of them.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katlan View Post
    3 hours being long content made me lol. That's a raiding night. Not even talking abou XI
    I'm sure all of nyzul could have been cleared in about 3 hours at 75 if you were not locked out of 1 attempt every 20hrs. Holy shit XI had lockouts?!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shenrien View Post
    I'm sure all of nyzul could have been cleared in about 3 hours at 75 if you were not locked out of 1 attempt every 20hrs. Holy shit XI had lockouts?!
    True, but XI supplemented lockouts with other content. NI, Assault, Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar etc., there were so many events to do in a week that you hardly dealt with the drought that XIV does. I am sure I missed a few, but not counting the multiple open world activities and goals the game had.

    What is xivs counter to short lived content with a majority of it being walled

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thiefami View Post
    I am sure I missed a few
    3 hours of taking pictures of puddings or puks every day

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shenrien View Post
    I'm sure all of nyzul could have been cleared in about 3 hours at 75 if you were not locked out of 1 attempt every 20hrs. Holy shit XI had lockouts?!
    You could also save up your attempts for a single night. A lot of xi's content was planning friendly. Most groups were clearing 5 floors for progress at about 20 mins each run so it would be a few more hours for the average group.

    3 hours seems like a generous time for players. I can see a bunch of groups speed running the floors in sub 1hr time once a few more details are figured out.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    3 hours of taking pictures of puddings or puks every day

    That was the job of LS underlings waiting in line for their Ridills.

  7. #27

    Quote Originally Posted by Thiefami View Post
    True, but XI supplemented lockouts with other content. NI, Assault, Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar etc., there were so many events to do in a week that you hardly dealt with the drought that XIV does. I am sure I missed a few, but not counting the multiple open world activities and goals the game had.

    What is xivs counter to short lived content with a majority of it being walled
    Yea, that's the funny thing about lockouts, you tend to not notice them when there's lots of other stuff to do.

    We say it sarcastically but really the lockouts in XI barely even registered in my mind as lockouts, when you have more events than days in the week, each with their own lockout, it's just a matter of deciding what to do on each day.

  8. #28
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    It would be pretty cool to have something like challenge mode in PSO

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Yea, that's the funny thing about lockouts, you tend to not notice them when there's lots of other stuff to do.

    We say it sarcastically but really the lockouts in XI barely even registered in my mind as lockouts, when you have more events than days in the week, each with their own lockout, it's just a matter of deciding what to do on each day.

    I was thinking about that the other day. I'd log into 11 with a nice LS message of what was going on and the times. M- Dynamis Windy T - Odin W - Legion Th - Free/Salvage - F - Dynamis Xarc etc. Or Fafhogg 4:32 KB 5:37 Tiamat OPEN! :02/:32 etc. It was nice to have your whole week planned out, never did I log in and twiddle my thumbs or not know my agenda. And it was something different everytime.

    14 is roulette, roulette, Smash face, roulette.

  10. #30
    XI was, and will always be, better.
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  11. #31
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    Lol fair enough, but there were definitely other things in the open world like ENM, moblin maze, magian trials, campaign and besieged, HNMs, gear runs (optical hat, carby mitts etc), sky and sea.

    The lack of over world use on all levels is disappointing in xiv. Maybe they should introduce taking pics of puddings and puks as it seems they are struggling for ideas and how to properly implement them

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    3 hours of taking pictures of puddings or puks every day

  12. #32
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    XIV does have content but the issue is that 90% of it isn't relevant anymore due to ilvl. What they're trying to do here with HW is introduce new types of content into the game with Exploration and Deep Dungeons. We all now Diadem failed but let's see how the new version works now.
    Also I don't think we should be comparing XI's ToAU era with HW XIV. Zilart XI didn't have a lot of stuff to do other than Kings and (later on) Sky.
    Although I agree that the overworld is currently wasted potential, especially Azys Lla. They really could add poppable NMs all over the place and turn it into sky/sea, although I feel they just want to do that stuff in instanced areas like Diadem.

  13. #33
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    I respectfully disagree. ToAU era is a great comparison to make to XIV and where it should be. I understand that this game gets passes because it was rereleased, but lets review the timeline.

    XI's original release was in 2002 and only for JP. NA/EU launch in '03/04 bundled with RoZ, later ToAU was released in '06.

    FFXIV 1.0 was originally released in 2010 with 2.0's re-release in 2013. It has now been 3 years into 2.0. c'mon... the same amount of time has passed. There is really no excuse for it at this point.

  14. #34

    There's only no excuse if you wanna ignore the excuse that's already there.

    But yes XI and XIV are perfectly similar and comparable games on a point by point basis so clearly XIV should be exactly where XI was. I must say some of you are incredible.

  15. #35

    Indeed, it's not fair to compare a game made 10-15 years ago in the infancy of the MMO genre to one made today.

  16. #36

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Indeed, it's not fair to compare a game made 10-15 years ago in the infancy of the MMO genre to one made today.
    If the point you wanna make is that games made 15 years later should automatically be better then LOL.

    What silliness.

  17. #37
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    I guess people hoped that SE would have learned from the successes and screw-ups of FF11 when they planned out 14 content. But yeah, the invalidation of content with each ilevel increase is a continuing problem in my opinion.

  18. #38
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    dont think it takes very much for anyone to see that XI and XIV are very different MMOs due to the vastly different equipment progression models they use, which in turn influence the way content is designed or perused. while i've accepted that XIV is about the ilevel chase, i still find it extremely wasteful design because content gets obsoleted very quickly. most of the time older content has to be brought back to relevance indirectly through some secondary value or means (read:relic and anima weapons), which itself is subject to that ilvl chase, meaning to say even that wont last.

    the lack of overworld events is also a huge pity considering how gorgeous eorzea is and how much space they can actually work with, especially in HW. I'm glad they've slowly shifted towards incorporating more of this, through activities that don't require the rigid 4man role-specific structure where you and a few friends can just try things out with a bunch of classes they think might work. Its this unstructured kind of midcore content that XI truly excelled in, because it encouraged people to actually play with their friends - and the more people pushed this frontier the more experimental our playstyles could be (of course this being something that was not limited by game design). I'm somewhat glad to see traces of it in the Aquapolis (but that gets boring pretty fast, because of lack of substantial rewards other than loot, and too much RNG/uncertainty involved).

    I'd love to see more open-world popped NMs... and its not like XIV doesnt already have a system that does this- its called Treasure Maps. - its just that nothing that comes from it was meant to be a part of the ilevel chase, so its usually under the radar for most players. it would be a nice alternative path in the gear chase.. and I've noticed they have been trying to broaden the gear progression paths. Now its something like raid-content, a mixture of non-raid content, tomestones, and PVP gear. but once again, its very wasteful because every patch they basically obsolete everything.

    Deep dungeon sounds fun for leveling alt classes and more glamor fun, but otherwise sounds like an event that is pretty much dead on arrival since it will not likely be anywhere near the top end of the gear chase - not now or ever. and its quite interestingly 2.0 content.


    If anything I hope to see slower iLvl progression and better gear longevity / differentiation as they move to 4.0

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    There's only no excuse if you wanna ignore the excuse that's already there.

    But yes XI and XIV are perfectly similar and comparable games on a point by point basis so clearly XIV should be exactly where XI was. I must say some of you are incredible.
    XIV (ARR) is a newer MMO, yet being designed like it's still 2005 like all of these features and style of MMO gameplay is still "new"...maybe new compared to 1.x, but the genre has long moved on. Shouldn't XIV be superior?

    "Point by Point", XI had 2 expansions pushing towards the 3rd expansion that actually reformatted the game to an extent (ToAU really was quite a different experience) in the same time span as ARR has been out. The only thing that would "slow things down" is the fact XIV has higher graphics..yet all of the content is essentially the same and the itemization is terrible, so it's not like it takes so long to essentially copy paste the format of 5 storyline dungeons, 2 optional, 2 primals, thrills, chills, kills and FATES upon FATEs, throw in swimming for the "overworld" and call the next expansion Legends of the Hidden Ala Mhigo and release it in december.

    With XI the "copy paste" style of content made sense given it's a damn MMO designed on a system launched in 2000, yet they still somehow managed to make numerous varied systems and itemization actually interesting despite being limited. I think what makes me wonder the most is Yoshi stated as plain as day he had his team play WoW for a year yet it doesn't feel like they actually took the good WoW did.

    I don't know though, a new MMO with somehow worse server infrastructure and seemingly less design direction than an MMO designed in the late 90s does really make you wonder, but then again, it's "Final Fantasy", they can get away with anything. I mean, we heard "oh no ps2 limitations!" in FFXI yet still somehow got the features they said were impossible, but the same features asked for in XIV gets met with "no" or "servers would crash"...I mean, it is 2016, I guess it's silly to assume their newer MMO would have taken what was right with XI and shoot for the moon..but instead pull a North Korea, but promises one day they'll get off the ground!

    Because I know when I picked up Uncharted 4 I expected the same game from 2007 with nothing improved beyond graphics and most other core systems being inferior....

    So as I said, I guess come October we'll see if they're taking 4.0 in a different direction, or if Yoshi will remain tightlipped and say "please look forward to it" in order to drive "hype"...this game isn't a failure, but you can't ride on the same formula for very long, because the ONLY reason it's surviving is because it's called Final Fantasy.

    Remember when SE launched Fantasy Earth that was damn near similar in the sense it was "quite different from FFXI"?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    If the point you wanna make is that games made 15 years later should automatically be better then LOL.

    What silliness.
    By default, it shouldn't be a lesser version and should contain at least the essentials of a similar product in the modern market on release. It's like redesigning the iphone but removing the headphone jack.

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