Mass Shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando

[Koul]

So lets ban political islam.

Cuz that's what I said. Stop being purposefully obtuse. If you don't understand what I mean by political islam, then you need to get out your left echo chamber and look into the issues concerning it. Otherwise, discussing the topic is pointless with you.

[Byrthnoth]

Muslims are actively involved in <50% of our mass shootings. Guns are actively involved in all of them.

Legislating against a belief (in this case, a religion) is also stupid and impossible to enforce.

[Byrthnoth]

Further, he JUST bought those 2 guns legally in the last few days. So the FBI knew about him and the use of his gun permit raised no red flags.

Being on the terror watch list is not used as a factor when determining if someone is competent to purchase a firearm. Thanks, NRA.

[BadKarma]

this thread is great

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

[Quicklet]

If two dozen dead schoolchildren weren't enough to change anything, this isn't going to do it either, especially since you're going to have the same people who are scared of being in a bathroom with a transgender person thinking that this was divine punishment for sinning or some nonsense like that.

The really sad thing is that this will happen again and we will have the same exact responses from everyone, and nothing will change.

[Wulfgang]

The entire situation is a gigantic fucking hotbed. LGBT, Muslim/ISIS, gun control, even goddamn Internet censorship, to say nothing of the sheer number of people killed. Probably gonna be some pretty far reaching effects from this for years to come.

Pretty much this. Just got back to my place in the heart of downtown DC and there's a lot of pissed off people outside of bars / coffee shops and a few people with megaphones shouting in the street. DC is one of the most gay-friendly metros out there along with San Fran. Pride parade yesterday was massive.

[Fiye]

Cuz that's what I said. Stop being purposefully obtuse. If you don't understand what I mean by political islam, then you need to get out your left echo chamber and look into the issues concerning it. Otherwise, discussing the topic is pointless with you.

Did you read my post?

[Anoat]

Further, he JUST bought those 2 guns legally in the last few days. So the FBI knew about him and the use of his gun permit raised no red flags.

CNN was saying that he was allowed to bypass several layers of background checks because he was a licensed security guard. Now, a good question would further be why is a guy known to the FBI to be a possible threat allowed to become (or maintain) a security guard license?

[Niiro]

If two dozen dead schoolchildren weren't enough to change anything, this isn't going to do it either

^

If a bunch of white kids in Connecticut getting massacred barely lead to anything, a bunch of sinful homos in Orlando getting shot isn't gonna lead to dick.

This is what America is, stop being so shocked every time it happens.

And hey, on the bright side, I'm sure gun retailers are grateful for the coming sales surge this guy just gave them.

[Anoat]

If two dozen dead schoolchildren weren't enough to change anything, this isn't going to do it either, especially since you're going to have the same people who are scared of being in a bathroom with a transgender person thinking that this was divine punishment for sinning or some nonsense like that.

The really sad thing is that this will happen again and we will have the same exact responses from everyone, and nothing will change.

There is a large contingent of people (crazy people, but people whose vote counts just as much as yours and mine) who believe the Newtown shooting was completely fabricated and staged by the Obama administration to get harsher gun control laws enacted.

[Byrthnoth]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gop-block...ts-buying-guns

^ This is why he could still buy a gun





^ Makes a poignant point about the failures of regulation

[Wulfgang]

I'm pretty moderate as far as BG goes, but there really is no reason for the AR-15 (a civilian version of the military M-16) and similar weapons to be legal. Yes, truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain assault weapons regardless of legality, but you can apply that concept to myriad other corollaries ("truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain heroin regardless of legality..."); it does not mean those corollaries should be legal. The biggest benefit to making these weapons illegal comes from basic economics.

1) US illegalizes the AR-15 for civilian use
2) Gun manufacturers cut production as demand wanes from one of their largest markets
3) Over time, less AR-15s remain in circulation and the cost for procuring said weapon rises

In the end, lunatics without direct terrorism funding end up being forced to select a more affordable, and less efficient killing mechanism. You'll never eliminate random or motivated acts of violence entirely; it's really about erecting as many feasible barriers to entry as possible without going full nanny state.

[Salodin]

Being on the terror watch list is not used as a factor when determining if someone is competent to purchase a firearm. Thanks, NRA.

This right here could have prevented this shooting. Every one keeps their guns, and backround checks take an extra 20 seconds, unbelievable that we have a terror watch list but don't use it for anything worthwhile.

[tyven]

I'm pretty moderate as far as BG goes, but there really is no reason for the AR-15 (a civilian version of the military M-16) and similar weapons to be legal. Yes, truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain assault weapons regardless of legality, but you can apply that concept to myriad other corollaries ("truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain heroin regardless of legality..."); it does not mean those corollaries should be legal. The biggest benefit to making these weapons illegal comes from basic economics.

1) US illegalizes the AR-15 for civilian use
2) Gun manufacturers cut production as demand wanes from one of their largest markets
3) Over time, less AR-15s remain in circulation and the cost for procuring said weapon rises

In the end, lunatics without direct terrorism funding end up being forced to select a more affordable, and less efficient killing mechanism. You'll never eliminate random or motivated acts of violence entirely; it's really about erecting as many feasible barriers to entry as possible without going full nanny state.

pls stop trying to take our guns

[tyven]

This right here could have prevented this shooting. Every one keeps their guns, and backround checks take an extra 20 seconds, unbelievable that we have a terror watch list but don't use it for anything worthwhile.

but wont you think about the gun makers that need every sale possible? god why do you hate america so much

[vagus]

In the end, lunatics without direct terrorism funding end up being forced to select a more affordable, and less efficient killing mechanism. You'll never eliminate random or motivated acts of violence entirely; it's really about erecting as many feasible barriers to entry as possible without going full nanny state.

This is the point some amendment supporters seem to not understand.

[tyven]

you know who is throwing up hella praise allahs right now? Brock Turner and his family

[vagus]

you know who is throwing up hella praise allahs right now? Brock Turner and his family

Lol.

[EternityEnd]

Itt; people who think a gun ban would prevent terrorists from getting access to them.

People aren't fucking genies. They can't just wish things into existence. By your logic, nothing should be banned. The fact of the matter is that banning things, including assault weapons, is effective.

This guy was a domestic terrorist because of what he did, not because of his affiliations. Being labeled a terrorist does not grant one the magical propensity to conjure weapons into existence, and the U.S. is separated from ISIS by the Atlantic. This guy is not comparable to the organized ISIS cells that attacked Paris, some of whom crossed an easily exploitable land border with supplies.

It was his status as an American that allowed him to acquire the assault weapon that gave him the direct power to slaughter dozens in minutes, not any terrorist affiliation. If you make it hard-to-impossible for American civilians to purchase assault weapons, then it will be hard-to-impossible for would-be domestic terrorists to acquire them.

[Karbuncle]

Come on guys... can you seriously say aloud "This mentally unstable murderer driven by a zealous devotion would have never committed this crime if not for the availability of guns" and not choke on your own shit? He was on a watchlist for multiple years, interviewed, etc and still managed to pull this off. If anything I'd agree being upset he was able to purchase firearms while on an FBI terrorist watchlist (which is where I agree with Byrth, but also have to be careful because restricting someone based on suspicion is a slippery slope between paranoid robbery of rights and legitimate concern)

But this instance is a mental health problem exacerbated by a radical group telling these kids their religion wants them to murder non-believers and you will be rewarded for doing so.

I get that when a shooting happens the first reaction is "BAN THE GUNS" but when you reach the point that murdering for whatever your ideology is, you wont be stopped by laws, our only hope is law enforcement catching them before the act and reasonable laws and restrictions (which many would argue we already have in place). We'll never prevent mass murders, shooting or bombing or otherwise...

I'm pretty moderate as far as BG goes, but there really is no reason for the AR-15 (a civilian version of the military M-16) and similar weapons to be legal. Yes, truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain assault weapons regardless of legality, but you can apply that concept to myriad other corollaries ("truly devoted individuals will find a way to obtain heroin regardless of legality..."); it does not mean those corollaries should be legal. The biggest benefit to making these weapons illegal comes from basic economics.

1) US illegalizes the AR-15 for civilian use
2) Gun manufacturers cut production as demand wanes from one of their largest markets
3) Over time, less AR-15s remain in circulation and the cost for procuring said weapon rises

In the end, lunatics without direct terrorism funding end up being forced to select a more affordable, and less efficient killing mechanism. You'll never eliminate random or motivated acts of violence entirely; it's really about erecting as many feasible barriers to entry as possible without going full nanny state.

You make a good point on the AR-15, and I don't disagree with trying to do your best to keep things out of the hands of the wrong person... So I get the idea of erecting more walls in order to help prevent situations like these but even if we make more walls now, the next time a mass shooting happens people will go "IT WASNT ENOUGH, MORE LAWS" until we enter a full "nanny state" as you put it. Shootings will continue to happen as we put up more laws, we all know it, and every time a new one happens there will be yelling for more laws to stop it until they just yell to ban firearms all together, as some already are now.

Does that mean we shouldn't try? No, laws exist for a reason and I do believe there should be restrictions on some tings... but we have laws for firearms... and I can't tell you I have a better solution... so I'm at a loss here, but I feel like just slapping more and more chains on guns isn't going to save lives, and I'd argue criminals having knowledge that guns are more and more rare due to laws will actually just endanger more people, Especially on a more personal house-hold/business level.

And for what its worth, I don't own a single firearm.

Edit: To clarify I'm no against reasonable restrictions, which again some would argue we already have... just against knee-jerk extreme restrictions. And I agree with Byrth on some levels.