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Thread: Level Boost in FFXIV?     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyall View Post
    I think part of the issue is that so much of the old content gets lost in the shuffle: 50 roulette is largely composed of things you don't ever have to touch AND you might not even know exist. Better, since the job quests now give you i90 gear, most of the stuff you'd find in those dungeons is only good for completion or glamour (excepting, of course, that a good number of them are recycled as dyeable crafted recipes).

    Because the MSQ takes so much more time after hitting level 50, and immediately deposits you into Ishgard for HW after 2.55, there's no "break" in the game to go explore the rest of the level 50 stuff. Players during the launch periods had a lot more of a streamlined way to get in on the offerings, since Expert was locked behind all of the new stuff. Keeping up with the content patches meant you had experienced everything outside of Coil. Now you just get dropped into the world. Not helping is that all of the optional content is now entirely optional, and with no real rewards hiding inside of them...
    Very true. I wish we had like ... a wardrobe or something to make going into old dungeons and collecting "glamour" worth it. Like collecting gear sets from older dungeons would be fun. Most players will unsync this but it'd be cool for new players to have something to make going into "old content" worth doing. The song sheets and card-chance apparently wasn't enough.

    I quite enjoy doing the old content still. I'm in that mentor roulette so hard.. unless it's EXTREME. Then I curl up and beg for mercy

  2. #62
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    It's only going to compound in the future, though. Right now you can get all the way to 60 without knowing that Crystal Tower even existed. If you don't do your relic quest, which you have no reason to, you can't even pursue Coil (again, if you know it's in there). Once Heavensward is outdated, it'll be possible and likely to miss out on Warring Triad, Alexander and Void Ark. Mentor Roulette can help people try those as they were meant to be tackled, but odds are people are just going to smash them unsynced in Party Finder.

    Every themepark has this problem, though. Without a reason to tackle older raids in WoW, there wasn't a reason to go into them. You sure as fuck weren't finding 40 people to run through Molten Core "as intended" in recent years. I don't know what a solution is, though. It's unfortunate for the new players to miss out on this stuff while it's live, but it also blows for the people who've now been doing it for a few years to never be rid of it.

  3. #63
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    Easy: give some kind of new reward people would actually want that required doing it with "minimum ilvl" checked. :D

    ...kinda wish they'd locked the dyeable replica gear behind that. And they could later add similar dyeables for CT, even weapons. Think red titan weapons, blue ifrit weapons, black garuda weapons, could be pretty cool.

  4. #64
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    dyeable weapon glows

    green fire on ifrit weapons...

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Still waiting for the skill crunch. A lot of skills could be compressed into a single ability and save on icons.
    skill crunch isn't even needed. I don't want this game to become like wow where going from FF14 to that game their basic as fuck rotations put me to sleep. if they ever crunch combos into one button I will seriously consider quitting.

  6. #66
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    Wait... FFXIV's rotation as it stands is incredibly boring and a bit fruitless. Howcome you find WoW's boring? Earlier levels, maybe, but at 80/90/100...

    WAR DRK DRG PLD MNK NIN is basically 123/456
    MCH is 1,1,1,oh 2, 1,1, oh 2, oh 3, 1,1,1,1 and so on

    BLM for single target you're mashing 5 buttons to keep Fire 4 up. (B3, F1, F4, F3, B4)
    Not sure about SMN for now but I just keep DoTs up and push whatever is free.

    The most similar gameplay to WoW rotation wise would be BRD. Primarily push 1 button, push other buttons as they proc/apply or refresh DoTs/push some other off GCD.

    In general it's not very engaging. I agree WoW did simplify it from what it was, but it was generally a positive change. I think WoW being too simple is a misconception from the skill crunch and the over reaction from when it was first done.

    Tanking in WoW, for the jobs I played at least, PLD/DK/WAR, you have to be rather aggressive to build resources and use it for survival (self-heals/damage reduction). Even then it's not exactly just pushing 1 button, but the key to WoW's rotations is priority, rather than a conveyor belt rotation that is FFXIV which shafts you over when a priority changes.

  7. #67
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    FFXIV mission story is pretty much a worthless grind if you dont care about the story, it's mostly teleport here talk to this npc, watch cutscene, teleport there, fetch this fetch that over and over for hours. And even if you want to read the story, it's a hassle, you have to click to continue every dialog instead of it just flowing naturally with the voice acting, which is not every story cutscene is voice acted either.

  8. #68
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    I wouldn't have minded the main story if it was at least interesting. Wasn't until The Crystal Braves arc where it finally got interesting.

  9. #69
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    I played beast mastery hunter to lvl 93 and the rotation was like a lvl 35 ff14 rotation like 4-5 buttons. I also found windwalker monk incredibly boring. the problem with it not being engaging is the real problem at least with bard my mind is occupied.

  10. #70
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    Not a fan. I didn't trudge through all that questing and teleporting and whatnot just for someone else to get a free pass through all that. It's a slap in the face. They can always skip the cutscenes instead if they're in a big hurry, just like I had to do (If I wanted long-winded convo I'd read Atlas Shrugged again, no thanks ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alisha View Post
    skill crunch isn't even needed. I don't want this game to become like wow where going from FF14 to that game their basic as fuck rotations put me to sleep. if they ever crunch combos into one button I will seriously consider quitting.
    FFXIV has maybe 1 or 2 jobs with any sort of intensive rotation at all.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadKarma View Post
    FFXIV has maybe 1 or 2 jobs with any sort of intensive rotation at all.
    Yeah, this game already puts me to sleep to the point I can heal Savage in my sleep let alone do it on DRK. I mean rotations aside, just the content design for the "masses" is boring as fuck yet on OF they still want the game easier, so I really won't be surprised if we get "one button combos" since they already condensed so much from 1.x into "one button" e.g USE THIS WEAPONSKILL..HA! IT SILENCED/STUN/PACIFIED/SLOWED THE MONSTER! instead of well, having the spells. I mean Yoship said it's too "complex and complicated for the new player" if we have to cast spells like Shell, Haste and so on yet they seemingly have no problem making "arena mechanics" that buffs us when we could have a dedicated support class that can, well, support us.

    Idk though, 4.0 is no doubt going to be 2.0 version swimming with 70% easier rotations and no relearning your job like 3.0 was (probably the only good thing about 3.0 was a fresh rotation for some jobs.)

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinye View Post
    Yeah, this game already puts me to sleep to the point I can heal Savage in my sleep let alone do it on DRK. I mean rotations aside, just the content design for the "masses" is boring as fuck yet on OF they still want the game easier, so I really won't be surprised if we get "one button combos" since they already condensed so much from 1.x into "one button" e.g USE THIS WEAPONSKILL..HA! IT SILENCED/STUN/PACIFIED/SLOWED THE MONSTER! instead of well, having the spells. I mean Yoship said it's too "complex and complicated for the new player" if we have to cast spells like Shell, Haste and so on yet they seemingly have no problem making "arena mechanics" that buffs us when we could have a dedicated support class that can, well, support us.

    Idk though, 4.0 is no doubt going to be 2.0 version swimming with 70% easier rotations and no relearning your job like 3.0 was (probably the only good thing about 3.0 was a fresh rotation for some jobs.)
    even rage of halone 1-2-3 is more interesting than any rotation in WoW.
    though it looks like some wow rotations are getting more interesting in leigon

  14. #74
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    Noooo no no no! xD

    I played beast mastery hunter to lvl 93
    I believe a BM hunter is one of the boring classes in WoW, along with a few others. I've not actually played hunter at all, but a quick research shows a similar trend (and also perhaps why they get a generally bad rep in WoW)

    BRD definitely matches the more engaging classes of WoW. As I said, a rotation based on priorities is significantly more fun than the 123/456 of DRG WAR PLD NIN DRK MNK. Mileage may vary of course, you find it engaging, which is nice. I guess I don't like it because it's too restrictive. If you start a combo you generally need to finish it. I don't like that. If I need to shield lob, shield bash or reapply DoT, or do anything else, the combo is gone. I don't think I can clemency mid combo either lol, don't remember now

  15. #75
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    I can’t post in the “Official News and Information” section of the forum yet, so I’ll revive the old Jumping Potion thread.

    As I see it, Job Jump Potion generally has 3 effects: it allows to skip the grind associated with leveling the job; it gives the character the ability to use all his level 60 actions at once, as opposed to introducing them gradually and letting learn them naturally by doing game content of increasing level; it requires to pay real money. And while I’m sure that most players would only appreciate if the amount of leveling grind were reduced for everybody, the second and the third mentioned effects cause a lot of controversy. Square Enix certainly could reach the first effect (reduce or remove the necessity of grind) without involving the second and third effects, but it has preferred to do the way it does for monetization reasons. Requiring real money is such an obvious monetization reason that doesn’t require an explanation. While letting the player use all his job’s level 60 actions at once is a matter of offering an attractively looking product, with the general principle that the player gets as good start as a veteran level 60 player by purchasing it.

    One of the base principles on which the game is built, is that players are required to get certain amount of rewards for doing lower level content in order to unlock higher level content. For expansion content the blocker is character (job) level and the main reward is experience points. For the content between expansions the main blocker is average item level and the main reward is gear/weapons with higher item level (and for the most hardcore content gear stats also begin to matter). The game is designed so that in order to get the necessary amount of rewards players need to do content more than they would do on their own free will just for fun. This excessive amount of “work” required to unlock higher level content is what players call grind. Game developers use this technique in order to gain player retention and take the benefit of higher income from the game. So this is what SE is now asking money for – removing the grind. In my opinion this is certainly very different and not nearly as bad as pay2win (which would be the case if, for example, SE started to sell for real money equipment with item level and stats on par with those that you get from the latest hardcore raid). With level 70 cap most players just won’t view reaching level 60 as a victory. On the other hand, this is not the most elegant solution of the grind problem from a player’s point of view.

    A more elegant solution, for example, could look like this:
    – new players are required to do all the leveling dungeons just once to get their job to level 60;
    – players that have a level 60 job are required to do once only every second dungeon (with some freedom of choice of particular dungeons) to get a new job to level 60;
    – players who have experience of playing the role of their new job are required to do once only every third dungeon (with some freedom of choice of particular dungeons and starting from a higher level dungeon) to get a new job of the same role to level 60.
    This, on the one hand, would not require excessive grind, and on the other hand would let players learn new skills naturally and gradually in the process of playing the game. And of course, this would not involve paying real money. But we’ve got what we’ve got.

    The negative effect of having level 60 players (with lots of abilities) who don’t know how to play their job in team game is obvious, so I would expect SE to take a particular measure against it: to make it so that the first leveling dungeon that everybody has to go through in Stormblood is the new Deep Dungeon. The core principle of a Deep Dungeon is that everybody (new and veteran players) start from a low level inside of it and levels up (gains new abilities) at a faster pace but still gradually. This would solve the problem of experience disparity between new and veteran players, but only partially, because Deep Dungeon basically brings down every role to DPS and doesn’t teach how to play Tank and Healer jobs properly. Since veteran players will also need to learn 4.x job skills/rotations that will replace 3.x job skills/rotations, the disparity between veteran and new players should be even less noticeable.

    While I don’t have anything against having a Deep Dungeon as the first necessary leveling step in Stormblood, I wouldn’t like it to replace all normal leveling dungeons. FF XIV is an MMORPG. The RPG element of the game for me mainly means the content design and the jobs design, where playing different roles (mainly Tank, Healer and DPS) actually matters and thus adds a lot of variety to the gameplay (from a player’s perspective, who can choose different roles that complement each other on the battlefield). Further roles specialization (such as ranged/melee, physical/magical DPS) and adding several jobs (which introduce different playstyles) to the same roles further enriches player experience. Deep Dungeon, where all roles are basically brought down to DPS by design, in my opinion, removes the essential RPG element of the game (making it just an MMO at best, without RPG) and thus makes team gameplay much more shallow/dull. I value team gameplay high because it also adds verity to otherwise rigidly scripted content.

    SE has made a couple of announcements, that make me worry about the number of leveling dungeons in Stormblood. The first one is Yoshi-P’s comment in this GameWatch interview, where he says about PotD that “the content for each save [10 floors] is roughly the same as an instanced dungeon”. Since we have 5 leveling dungeons in Heavensward and 50 floors in the first implementation of PotD... the math is simple. And the second one is his comment in this GameWatch interview, where he says that they have increased the number of compulsory main story quests and decreased the number of optional sidequests by the same amount in Stormblood. The question that I have in connection with it in my mind, is that if they had richer dungeon leveling experience prepared for players in Stormblood (Deep Dungeon in addition to the same number of normal leveling dungeons as in Heavensward), wouldn’t they have made more accent on leveling via dungeons rather than main scenario quests? So I’m going to be worried about it until SE makes an announcement about the number of leveling dungeons in Stormblood.

    As far as the target audience of Job Jump Potion is concerned, I think that it’s not going to be limited only to players who want to play a certain job (but skip the leveling process), but will also include players who need a certain job leveled for cross-class/role-shared actions (but are not interested in playing it at all).

    So far we haven’t been given a direct answer to the question, how the new cross-class actions (or how they are called in Stormblood – role shared actions) will be acquired. But based on information that has been released, I think that we can make a logical assumption that it will be necessary to level up other jobs in order to get the new role shared actions. I mean these pieces of information in particular, that have been revealed in Famitsu interview with Naoki Yoshida at NA Fan Festival 2016:
    – “Abilities that will mainly be in the shared category will be damage up abilities, or debuff abilities, etc. We want to make it so that you can change which abilities you use depending on the content and other party member”. Here and on many other occasions Yoshi-P mentions, that players will be able to choose which role shared actions to use. This practically excludes the possibility that role shared actions are merely ordinary actions that every job of the same role unlocks at a certain level (e.g. all healers unlock Swiftcast at level 35). This is rather something that players will have to choose from (why not use all of them if they could?);
    – “Or better to say, the additional actions system will be replaced all together with the role shared actions. New players will gain the abilities automatically, and when they try to level multiple jobs is when they will start to be aware of the system.”. While he says that role shared actions will be acquired automatically (which probably means that players won’t need to complete a quest for it or something else), it will only be possible when a player levels up additional jobs. So I imagine that before a players starts to level up a new job belonging to the same role, he won’t even be shown Active Help for role shared actions, because he will have no actions from other jobs of the same role to share. And when he starts to level up another job of the same role, he will be notified that now he can fill his first slot for additional actions with a sharable action from his previously leveled up job.

    As to the officially stated percentage of players who have purchased Job Jump Potions (27-29% of Korean/Chinese players), I think that it is already pretty high and will have an obvious tendency for substantial growth with the release of Stormblood, because new Jump Potions will allow to skip about twice as much grind as the existing ones (level 50 + level 60).

    As regards Story Skip Potion, I think that the main reason why leveling up is so firmly tied to the story, to begin with, is related to the fact that SE wants all players (both those interested in the story and not interested in it) to spend their time on going through it (just to gain longer player retention and higher income from the game). It also works the other way around: players who want to follow the story need to have their character leveled up and their gear more or less relevant. I also know players who have rushed leveling up their main character through the story and then leveled up an alt specifically to experience the story. I think that SE could easily allow players to go through the main scenario as an optional content at their own pace (at least for 2.x – 3.x story with the release of Stormblood). And if SE made 2.x – 3.x story even more easily accessible with the release of Stormblood (e.g. introduced it in the form of a video player inside of the game, where players could freely fast rewind forward/backward using a scroll bar at the bottom of the screen, with their character instantly appearing in front of the necessary NPCs and starting the dialogs, without the necessity of actually accepting and completing quests/battles and moving around), even more players would enjoy getting to know it.

    Compulsory main scenario also serves as a deterrent to leveling up alts, which could otherwise be more widely used to bypass the numerous lockout (such as loot lockouts, special currency weekly caps) and rewards limitation (such as Armory [rested experience] bonus, first duty completion bonus, daily duty roulette bonuses) systems that are used to prevent players from going through content at a faster pace that it is designed, in order to gain longer player retention and higher income from the game. Cross-class (role shared) actions systems also play an important part in achieving this goal – deterring players from leveling up alts (by the amount of extra grind required for leveling up a job with all the necessary cross-class actions).

    So the main reason for introducing Story Skip Potion is quite obvious, in my opinion,– purely to make more money by selling it.

    As regards Yoshi-P’s post about jumping potions, I’m pretty sure that it was made only for PR reasons, while the decision about implementing jumping potions has been made internally long ago. This post is, first of all, aimed to convince players that jumping potions are not such a bad thing (the first players’ reaction to stating the fact that they have decided to implement jumping potions without such preparation might look too scary) ; it also allows SE to make it look as if they at least listened to players’ concerns. It also seems like SE prefers to have this full of controversy discussion to take place sooner rather than later, before attention of new potential players is drawn to the expansion sales by the marketing campaign, and so that existing players’ attention can be drawn to more positive sides of the game after sales begin. And while SE is still preparing the public opinion for accepting the fact of jumping potions implementation (and not announcing it with the 100% probability), a lot of players will have made their preorders already.

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