Announcing the FFXI Development Team Reddit AMA (07/18/2016)

[Viar]

If SE has 50k accounts active at 13 bucks per account, thats they drop the monthly fee by 3 bucks, thats 150k less every month. In order to recoup that, they would need to bring in 15k active accounts, and thats not even factoring in potential extra bandwith. Do you think 15k old players will suddenly resub because the game is 10/mo instead of 13/mo?


*if my math is wrong here, im sorry in advance.

This is exactly what I wanted to say, if not enough player resub with lower fee then it's massive decrease in revenue. By then its also not possible to increase the sub fee back to $13 a month anymore. There's not a legit reason to increase the sub fee without getting negative feedback from players.

To me lowering sub fee seems like an extremely risky move.

[Draylo]

Honestly perplexed how 13 dollars a month is such a huge hit to peoples wallets. I spend more on snacks each month than that... I do agree that it's annoying they are charging the same amount with much less effort put in though. They wouldn't have to consider lowering the monthly fee if they would give a discount for FFXIV players or actually invest in the game to get more subs.

[Byrthnoth]

If we lowered the price to $5/mo the ten people on this forum that found out about it might come back to the game but the vast majority of those who have quit would not know and thus not even consider it. It's really just a losing proposition for them to lower the price from a business standpoint.

Best thing they could do is probably bundling the subscription with FFXIV at an $8 combined discount, and then advertise it in Mog Station so people actually know about it.

[Zetanio]

They're going to do nothing and milk it til it's dead. They aren't exactly clever.

[Damane]

If it was a piece of shit, youd unsub...

I am actually considering that :/. I barely attend events and when I log on I either craft a bit or force myself through ambuscade


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[Sechs]

You're trying to apply morals to a business model, which is a concept that morality does not apply to. It's you who is not making any sense.

I don't think that's what Seha was saying.
She wasn't sayin SE should be BOUND to do that. She's perfectly aware that's unrealistic but at the same times she WISHES SE would do that.

It's true companies obviously think about profit first and foremost, but this doesn't mean they can't find an acceptable compromise between their profit and the users's interest. Know what?
According to some companies having happy customers is part of their business model, while other companies like to make their users bend over to 90° whenever they can.
Both models can be a success, both models can fail, kinda depends on how good or bad that company is to use that specific model.

There ARE companies which have sort of an "ethic" of behaviour to their customers, it's just that SE isn't one of those, at least when it comes to FFXI and I'd dare to say they've never been.

[Sechs]

If SE has 50k accounts active at 13 bucks per account and they drop the monthly fee by 3 bucks, thats 150k less every month. In order to recoup that, they would need to bring in 15k active accounts, and thats not even factoring in potential extra bandwith. Do you think 15k old players will suddenly resub because the game is 10$/mo instead of 13$/mo?


*if my math is wrong here, im sorry in advance.

A lot of users would resub for sure. Problem is more about how many of those users would KEEP their subscription after a certain amount of months.
I think this is their main concern. Get a lot of users for a few months, and then the desert.
At that point you can't even raise the subs back up again because once you go down you can't realistically go back up.

[arus2001]

Really just boils down to them needing to spend money if they want to make it. Right now, they're cutting back dramatically on the spending and more or less riding out on the addiction of the remaining players. It's a shit move, but it's partially our fault for allowing them to do it without vocal backlash and unsubbing. Just one or the other doesn't work.

[Sechs]

It's our fault, bullseye.
When nobody complains (well, not in a way that matters, just a few silent voices here and there) and everybody bends over and launches their money at SE, can we really complain if they keep doing moves like those? Talking about the Wardrobe one for instance but it's just an example out of many.

[Seha]

You're trying to apply morals to a business model, which is a concept that morality does not apply to. It's you who is not making any sense.

The company isn't morally obligated to do a damn thing. They may feel obligated to do things or not do things based on the profits they're making, but that doesn't have anything to do with morals, either.

FFXI is profitable right now because the sub fees they're raking in (probably) greatly eclipse the money they're putting into the game. If they were to lower the sub fee, it would make the current customers happy and possibly play longer, and would likely bring in new players as well. But whether they will do it or not will completely depend on how much they think changing the status quo would benefit them. Again, nothing to do with morality.

Unfortunately for us, SE (or any game company) doesn't operate based on how much it owes the players. It's all about their bottom line.

FFS I guess it's true that reading is hard.
I said it in the first post that business doesn't run on morality.

[Spira]

If SE has 50k accounts active at 13 bucks per account and they drop the monthly fee by 3 bucks, thats 150k less every month. In order to recoup that, they would need to bring in 15k active accounts, and thats not even factoring in potential extra bandwith. Do you think 15k old players will suddenly resub because the game is 10$/mo instead of 13$/mo?


*if my math is wrong here, im sorry in advance.

this example hits the nail on the head.

SE could lower the monthly fee by X amount, or even go F2P (with proper cash shop implementation) for a potential increase in players/subscriptions which would translate into additional revenue. but doing anything of this sort is guaranteed monetary loss.

but all that is just for potential revenue gain. SE would need to put in more resources to implement the systems and market/promote them. so in addition to the guaranteed monetary loss, they'd still have to incur additional costs for deciding to change things up.

when you add both of this to the fact that the game is old and would have difficulty attracting brand new players who have a slew of prettier or cheaper MMO options, including XIV, then you see that the likelihood of gains outweighing the cost overlay is pretty low.

better to do nothing and still get money, or do something that at the very least doesn't chalk up guaranteed loss. that's why they're not touching subscription fees.

[Hitou]

SE would sooner pull the plug on FFXI than lower the subscription fee. They told Matsui to make the game more profitable or reduce costs, I forget which now, which is the only reason we're in the current development dearth. Even though FFXI is profitable, to SE if it doesn't meet some threshold it's not worth keeping around. So yeah, they're never going to lower subs even with all the reasons we shouldn't have to pay full price anymore.

[Damane]

Lets be claer. Noone is gonna invest in FF11. From a company standpoint of view the game served its purpose. The time for investments into this game has long since passed. The only logical thing for a company to do is ride it out until its not profitable enough and then shut it down, while focusing on new games/brands. I wish and hope for a new expansion, but its not gonna happen.
we have reached the point in a products lifeline, where you do the least/cheapest effort to keep your existing customers happy, while focuseing all your money/revenue in new projects. This happens all the time in every company.
I am honestly surprised we made it this far to be honest. (Adoulin and Rhapsodys)


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[Silenka]

FFS I guess it's true that reading is hard.
I said it in the first post that business doesn't run on morality.

You're right, I totally didn't read that post, just the one under it. But it's pointless to argue for a price reduction from a moral standpoint regardless.

[Arkanna]

Selfishly, I'd play again if the game went F2P. I'd probably resub and play for $5 a month, but that will never happen for various reasons mentioned above so it's w/e.

$13 a month won't break my bank but the reason I finally cancelled for good was because I didn't have the willpower to dump the kind of time into the game it would have taken to get Job Master on even one job, let alone the 5 or 6 I still cared about. The ever-shrinking new content for the same money irritates the sensibility side of me too.

I feel the right thing to do would have been to reduce the sub fee by $4, while simultaneously implementing Wardrobe 3 and 4 at the $2 each price point and defaulting the optional "services" to "ON". Maybe some people might have bitched, but 90% would have just continued to pay the same amount while enjoying more "free storage". SE would have been throwing a bone to the people that wanted more storage, and they'd have been throwing a bone to the people that would appreciate a monthly fee reduction.

[Spicyryan]

Honestly perplexed how 13 dollars a month is such a huge hit to peoples wallets. I spend more on snacks each month than that... I do agree that it's annoying they are charging the same amount with much less effort put in though. They wouldn't have to consider lowering the monthly fee if they would give a discount for FFXIV players or actually invest in the game to get more subs.

75%+ of the people who complain about the price wouldn't play the game much or at all even if it was free and nothing changed. They would get bored and complain more and then quit before coming back once again for the fifth time.

These same people likely buy dumb shit all the time that in the course of a year easily outdoes the cost of XI. Not to say that snacks are dumb, but I am sure someone here buys that gouged popcorn or candy at the movies.

Somehow people feel they are entitled to their vision of value for their money or their opinion is special, when they are just paying for a service. Nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think SE cares about the 14 combo because to them it was just a way to boost attention to or funnel people to 14. Given the time it was offered, and that it hasn't been since.

[steellord]

They're going to do nothing and milk it til it's dead. They aren't exactly clever.

Honestly, it's this path that deters me from investing time and $ into other products of theirs like 14, even though I have old friends still playing. Why, so i can go thru the same again? It's such a bullshit company any more that they have killed off any trust or goodwill

[steellord]

I don't think that's what Seha was saying.
She wasn't sayin SE should be BOUND to do that. She's perfectly aware that's unrealistic but at the same times she WISHES SE would do that.

It's true companies obviously think about profit first and foremost, but this doesn't mean they can't find an acceptable compromise between their profit and the users's interest. Know what?
According to some companies having happy customers is part of their business model, while other companies like to make their users bend over to 90° whenever they can.
Both models can be a success, both models can fail, kinda depends on how good or bad that company is to use that specific model.

There ARE companies which have sort of an "ethic" of behaviour to their customers, it's just that SE isn't one of those, at least when it comes to FFXI and I'd dare to say they've never been.

You're correct that they never have been, when i think back to their "notorized" bullshit after ignoring hacked accounts altogether. I guess the difference to me now is charging people a monthly for 0 new content just crosses the line into abusive relationship. I have never heard of this in any MMO

[steellord]

we have reached the point in a products lifeline, where you do the least/cheapest effort to keep your existing customers happy

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um they aren't even doing that much (addicted apologist freaks like draylo aside), that's my point. They are charging the same they always have, for much less in terms of content. By march 2017 they will have gone 15 months of no new content while charging each player (if no mules or microtransaction) $183, surely the greatest ripoff for any video game ever. Does this somehow fail to escape your notice?

[Draylo]

Apologist freak? Do you even read the posts in this thread? I've said multiple times it sucks they charge the same amount for less work/resources and they aren't investing in the game. They are creating new content(ambuscade fights and Master trials) but its not as much as we should be getting. Also do you know you don't have to post three times when you can make a single post? Idiot.