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Thread: Patch 3.35 Notes     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    More like this. And they now decide to stagger content to try and keep people interested between patches.
    I'm confused, isn't this what an MMO should be doing? Has the meta changed that keeping players logged in a bad thing? Sure, fix the broken things, but you should have a reason to log in more than a couple days a week to raid and maps regardless if it's small goals or claiming an HNM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hioki View Post
    I'm confused, isn't this what an MMO should be doing? Has the meta changed that keeping players logged in a bad thing? Sure, fix the broken things, but you should have a reason to log in more than a couple days a week to raid and maps regardless if it's small goals or claiming an HNM.
    Sorry, I should have said delay rather than stagger.

    Instead of having enough content in their main patches, they don't put enough and then stagger filler content between patches. Keeping people logging in = good. Delaying content because you don't have enough in your patch so you start copy pasting content = bad.

    For the majority of the new player crowd, its fine, you won't hear them complaining - or the casual crowd that do a bit of everything. But imo, when you are paying a subscription, you expect more in the ways of content, rather than 4 fights every 7/8 months. Eventually they are going to run out of new players to replace the players that are leaving.

    There just isn't enough content in the game to keep me logging in outside of raid, and doing DF content isn't enjoyable considering how they let players leach their way through the game.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    Sorry, I should have said delay rather than stagger.

    Instead of having enough content in their main patches, they don't put enough and then stagger filler content between patches. Keeping people logging in = good. Delaying content because you don't have enough in your patch so you start copy pasting content = bad.

    For the majority of the new player crowd, its fine, you won't hear them complaining - or the casual crowd that do a bit of everything. But imo, when you are paying a subscription, you expect more in the ways of content, rather than 4 fights every 7/8 months. Eventually they are going to run out of new players to replace the players that are leaving.

    There just isn't enough content in the game to keep me logging in outside of raid, and doing DF content isn't enjoyable considering how they let players leach their way through the game.
    Let me ask you this then: What company currently does this? What MMO out there, right now, is doing things the way you'd want them to do it? Content constantly out. No delays whatsoever. Just aflush with a stream of new, meaningful content on a consistent basis.

    This isn't defending SE; this is trying to figure out if what you're asking for even exists in today's MMO market. I can't think of a single MMO that fits the bill. Blizzard's struggle to produce content in Legion was hilariously apparent (just TWO major patches within an entire expansion!), and they caught major flak for it. Even NA-translated Korean MMO's that "cheat" by simply translating content that's already out on the KR servers (like Black Desert) can't produce it fast enough for the player.

    So is there any game that you can think of, Haroldsaxon, that specifically gets this right? Shit, bonus points if you can think of two titles.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Let me ask you this then: What company currently does this? What MMO out there, right now, is doing things the way you'd want them to do it? Content constantly out. No delays whatsoever. Just aflush with a stream of new, meaningful content on a consistent basis.

    This isn't defending SE; this is trying to figure out if what you're asking for even exists in today's MMO market. I can't think of a single MMO that fits the bill. Blizzard's struggle to produce content in Legion was hilariously apparent (just TWO major patches within an entire expansion!), and they caught major flak for it. Even NA-translated Korean MMO's that "cheat" by simply translating content that's already out on the KR servers (like Black Desert) can't produce it fast enough for the player.

    So is there any game that you can think of, Haroldsaxon, that specifically gets this right? Shit, bonus points if you can think of two titles.
    I never said another company currently does this. I never said another MMO does this - this is my first serious MMO. But that still doesn't automatically mean that 4 fights every 7/8 months is good enough to keep me occupied, and isn't for a lot of other players as well.

    I never said I wanted content constantly out with no delays. I just want an acceptable amount of content that is proportional to the subscription fee that I paid. Are SE in any way obliged to cater their content exactly to my tastes and ignore some of the shit copy paste content/timewaste content like Triple Triad and LoV? No, they aren't. Just like i'm not obliged to spend my money on a sub from them. But maybe, if they stop a bit of funding being used on other games and hire some more members for the battle team, we can have some mid core content and some more savage content.

    Just look at how much "original" stuff is actually in these patches. I'm not saying a patch has to keep a 24/7 no life player occupied, but when I log in like 3/4 times a week and play and play fairly casually and still get bored, there's something wrong imo.

  5. #45
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    I already get bored on the 3rd or 4th day of the free logins they do every few months and thus me being behind on "massive" amounts of content. So kudos to you that you manage 3-4 days a week before you get bored.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
    Can say myself that PSO2 is more fun to play than this. But can get expensive with it's P2P model and anti-foreign player thing..
    If looking at the same SP animation until the end of time does it for you cool I guess. Game got boring fast, log in do daily / weekly challenge, stay offline and wait for boss tracker to announce something from browser to log in and go do the fight. Something about left click right click, shift isn't really that fun.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Let me ask you this then: What company currently does this? What MMO out there, right now, is doing things the way you'd want them to do it? Content constantly out. No delays whatsoever. Just aflush with a stream of new, meaningful content on a consistent basis.

    This isn't defending SE; this is trying to figure out if what you're asking for even exists in today's MMO market. I can't think of a single MMO that fits the bill.
    Yeah, it doesn't exist in the MMO market currently, and that's because MMO is a dead genre. All the mainstream MMOs suck at delivering a MMO experience, (yes, all of them, except perhaps some niche ones that barely anyone plays) because they all suffer from the same issues. The genre is struggling to stay afloat because many companies have bad business practices, and that is stacked on top of changing gamer mentalities that essentially invalidate MMOs as the genre they once were. Gamers do not want to wait around to party up with others anymore like it used to be in the heyday of the MMO genre. Now they want to be able to do everything solo in bite sized slices of time. Pick it up and put it down just as quick, with no actual devotion of a block of time to the "responsibility" of playing (rather like mobile and handheld gaming, really).

    MMOs have changed to fit that mentality, but that effectively creates a struggle - how does a developer create group content for a bunch of solo players who don't have the time, patience or sense of responsibility to work together with each other?

    In XIV you see this manifest in every aspect of the game. People rarely group for anything in the overworld, and when they do it's essentially solo play anyhow as people drop in and out of FATE parties without so much as a word to each other. In Duty Finder, you have a bunch of strangers who are all used to solo play and feel no responsibility to actually know how to play their roles suddenly inserted into a group environment, which they immediately start shitting up for the few good players that might have decided to subject themselves to DF that day.
    And in Party Finder, it's 90% groups that lock out anyone who can't do a flawless run the first time or immediately fall apart the second something goes wrong because again, no patience or sense of responsibility to fellow party members.

    How do you even make non-solo content for players when this is the way they play the game? In oldschool MMOs, we were forced to pair up and make friends and be part of the community or get nothing done. And we got used to it, and we liked it as much as we hated it, and we came away enriched somehow, even though playing the game required a huge time commitment. The closest thing XIV has to requiring or encouraging this social construct is the raid content, but as we've seen it's almost impossible for a static to stay together for any amount of time. If players were encouraged or even forced to play together in better ways and more often in XIV, if that mentality was to be guided into players again by deft implementation of content, we might see those groups be more successful. We might also see more difficult fights to overcome because the grouping mentality was there. (Or not, XIV's dev team seems to be pretty bad at creating battle content, but I'm sure it's not helped by having to make sure the larger number of fights are balanced for people who don't know how to play their roles even marginally well).

    MMOs as they were, as they should be, the only way they're going to be fun again, are dead. Just rename it MPSG - Mutiplayer Solo Games - and let the dead horse lie undisturbed.

    As usual, half the people in here are probably gonna say "NUH UH MMOs ARE FINE RIGHT NOW TAKE OFF YOUR ROSECOLORED GLASSES", and as usual be totally wrong. The way people want to play games nowadays has killed the MMO genre and it ain't coming back, at least not the way any of the oldschool MMO players want it to. All you have to do is look at what nearly every MMO is now - the game is fun until you run out of solo content and have to start grinding that lackluster endgame at which point most people quit - to realize they are basically solo games that a lot of people can play at once. MMOs don't make the money they once did either because of the unsubscribe/resubscribe trend and change from subscription model to free to play, which quite obviously further stunts the creation of content for players. Unless some bright-eyed developer comes along and somehow revitalizes the genre by making multiplayer content the point of the game again, we're all going to be playing hot steaming piles of shit labeled MMOs in short spurts with a lack of long-term interest for a long time to come.

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    Honestly Runescape is probably the only MMORPG there is currently that is able to produce content on monthly basis.

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    The issue isn't that content is being released in shorter gaps - the issue is the "major" patches never had enough content in since the reduction in content, with the majority of the content being copy pasted. Fair enough having small patches in between with extra content - but reducing the amount of content in the major patches to do these "side patches" while delaying the next major patch is wrong imo.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    The issue isn't that content is being released in shorter gaps - the issue is the "major" patches never had enough content in since the reduction in content, with the majority of the content being copy pasted. Fair enough having small patches in between with extra content - but reducing the amount of content in the major patches to do these "side patches" while delaying the next major patch is wrong imo.
    We wouldn't want to overwhelm the playerbase with content though, now would we?

  11. #51
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Ya'll niggas expecting too much from MMO's these days.

    Take it easy. Smoke a bowl and just play like I do. I don't even take shit serious anymore, I smoke and chat and meet people and all that. Interactive social media or something.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Let me ask you this then: What company currently does this? What MMO out there, right now, is doing things the way you'd want them to do it? Content constantly out. No delays whatsoever. Just aflush with a stream of new, meaningful content on a consistent basis.

    This isn't defending SE; this is trying to figure out if what you're asking for even exists in today's MMO market. I can't think of a single MMO that fits the bill. Blizzard's struggle to produce content in Legion was hilariously apparent (just TWO major patches within an entire expansion!), and they caught major flak for it. Even NA-translated Korean MMO's that "cheat" by simply translating content that's already out on the KR servers (like Black Desert) can't produce it fast enough for the player.

    So is there any game that you can think of, Haroldsaxon, that specifically gets this right? Shit, bonus points if you can think of two titles.
    It's not about other games getting it perfectly right, it's about this one getting it so wrong that's just depressing.

    In spite of its "two hilarious patches", WoW's smallest expansion still added around 30 unique progression bosses (without delving into their 3 difficulty levels) and a 5man progression system in the 19 months it has been out. In spite of the year-long content draughts between expansions, WoW still gets significantly more group-based endgame content per year than this game.


    Apparently we're expecting too much from a subscription MMO if we expect more than 4-5 bosses with a single difficulty setting every 8 months, though.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Ya'll niggas expecting too much from MMO's these days.

    Take it easy. Smoke a bowl and just play like I do. I don't even take shit serious anymore, I smoke and chat and meet people and all that. Interactive social media or something.
    A thousand times this

  14. #54
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    What a casual.

  15. #55
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    Using that logic, I'd quit raiding and only play during the free week after every major update, since that's all you really need to see the new shit they release, at no cost.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Ya'll niggas expecting too much from MMO's these days.

    Take it easy. Smoke a bowl and just play like I do. I don't even take shit serious anymore, I smoke and chat and meet people and all that. Interactive social media or something.
    That's what I sayyyyyyyyyyyy~

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    That's what I sayyyyyyyyyyyy~
    I guess you should have low expectations of SE, just sad after FFXI, FMO and DQX proves they could do so much better if they really wanted to.

  18. #58

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho View Post
    Interactive social media or something.
    How far we've fallen.


  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinye View Post
    I guess you should have low expectations of SE, just sad after FFXI, FMO and DQX proves they could do so much better if they really wanted to.
    I don't have high or low expectations of anyone. I judge each product on its own strengths and weaknesses nowadays, and shell my cash or keep it accordingly. XI isn't some Patron Saint: it would crash and burn in today's market because today's high schoolers and college nerds aren't investing that much time in a slow-paced MMO: its in MOBAs, shooters and mobile games.

    The era has passed. Either change the rules or change the audience, but asking for a time machine back to 2006 doesn't solve anything.

  20. #60

    The mix of content quality and appeal is pretty much why I feel no MMO is worth a sub fee these days. Personally, I have no issue partying for stuff, but when that comes at the expense of not being able to get anything done because the right people aren't looking, someone rage quits, plays like a total idiot, or whatever, then I'll most assuredly be looking into those solo alternatives. Main problem there, though, is we're still stuck in the "party = better loot" mentality, which translates to a lower peak in potential and often times at a greater grind, presuming no time gating at play.

    I know the usual conversational progression from that point is nobody would party if they didn't have to, but that just leads me to the core issue of the process: Is partying actually fun? And I'm not talking a bunch of guildmates/besties with voice chat and all that. I mean random strangers coming together for a common cause. We've got some social and mechanical hurdles that should be overcome in order to better the process, but for now, all we really get are ilvls or some minimum stat reqs depending on the game. Basically, not enough of these games teach people how to play their classes. On the other hand, I can't say hyper-efficient rotation hammering is to the genre's best interest, either, in part because the WASD control scheme is "the best we have" for present input methods.

    I know it's easy for someone to say things could or should be better, but I'd say it's more important to look to things how should be instead of how they were. And one of the simplest, yet most dramatic changes any MMO could make is that gear no longer drops. Instead, everything must be crafted. It spurs the economy. It encourages making connections, if for any reason to save money over AH costs. It makes it possible for people who don't raid to eventually get the same stuff, assuming they put the work in elsewhere. Of course, I'd further make the crafting concept even more robust in terms of customization, but that's another topic.

    And silly as it may sound for some, "pretending to be someone else" isn't really an element any MMO has captured yet to this day, in part because it usually runs counter to the math behind the game. The moment a game can really tap into that and realize that no two servers are the same, we might actually be onto a needed evolution of the genre.

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