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Thread: Patch 3.35 Notes     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #81

    Still say they dropped the ball there with respect to materia. Oh well. :/

  2. #82
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    Hopefully that can change with patch 4.0 since that could happen with changing systems. But honestly, I wouldn't expect anything more than a parry adjustment.

    I like most of the gear designs for XIV. However the rewards for chasing after savage gear are... less than stellar.

  3. #83

    Well, I meant more like materia modifying class abilities, so a BLM could have like a really pimp Thunder if they geared for it. But that'd certainly require them making sure materia is both balanced and fairly represented.

  4. #84
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    But if BLM had a really good Thunder then that would punish BLMs who didn't have a good Thunder, so we can't have that. Players must never have the choice to make something good, because if they do then something else will not be good.

    barance uber alles

  5. #85
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    I know what you'd want but Yoshi-P wouldn't go for it. At the end of the day he wants to make sure ilv 230 is better than say ilv 200. And that people won't equip the ilv200 gear over the 230 gear because of the +regen you don't see on it.

    (I know people already do this for certain secondaries if they're stacked enough)

    Maybe 4.0 they could manage it. Though I wonder if they have any plans on trying to gut the current system for 5.0 when we finally get away from Eorzea.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    I know what you'd want but Yoshi-P wouldn't go for it. At the end of the day he wants to make sure ilv 230 is better than say ilv 200. And that people won't equip the ilv200 gear over the 230 gear because of the +regen you don't see on it.
    This hypothetical problem was already solved in 3.2 when they put materia slots in all gear. Your prospective "Increases range of Cover" would simply be materia, and could be combined with "Increases duration of Cover" or "Increases radius of Flash" or "Increases potency of Clemency" or what have you.

  7. #87
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    Or implement something like FFIX's skill/trait system so you'd have to get and use certain pieces of gear to acquire stuff and power yourself up. Or is this "too hard" as well?

  8. #88

    My only beef with that would be if certain items are locked to raids. Otherwise, you'd just have to be careful to not grossly inundate people with a grind that only the hardcore could hope to complete. On paper, it'd be like having a choice between a No Merit/JP job in XI vs. someone who's mastered. You know damn well the community would prefer the latter.

  9. #89
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    Why would it be a problem if things are locked behind raids? Its not like there is much incentive other than that for people to raid. Its not likely you would need the top end trait materia if you aren't raiding.

    If you don't fancy raiding for it, wait until the next patch for the mechanics to get nerfed, welfare gear upgrade & Echo to be added. Or wait for it to be added via some other welfare method.

  10. #90

    Not really in the mood to jump down that rabbit hole at the moment, but we'll just sum it up as everyone not enjoying the raiding concept or being able to do it reliably. Otherwise, if we're really grumbling about MMO stagnation, the whole "raid = best stuff" philosophy is one of the first places we'd need to start addressing, as no one really wants to be 6-12+ months behind. Content's best for everyone when it's fresh, after all.

  11. #91
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    I agree that it shouldn't be locked behind raids; in fact, it should be spread among the widest amount of content possible, ESPECIALLY outdated content.

    Nobody needs another reason to do expert dungeons, PotD, or AS5-8; that content has sufficient rewards. But people definitely do need a reason to do Diadem, or WoD, or Ultima EX, or guildhests, or GC leves. So there should be a wide variety of different materia spread among as much old content as possible.

    This is one of the major advantages XI has over this game: in XI, there was so much sidegrade gear that you could do virtually any bit of content (that another person really needed) as a group and aim for something useful for one of your sidejobs' alt-gearsets. In this game, outside of glamour 99% of the gear in the game is literally useless.

  12. #92
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    they already use relic weapon quests and events like yokai to prop up old content already, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to add other rewards to incentivize all the crap no one wants to do.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Not really in the mood to jump down that rabbit hole at the moment, but we'll just sum it up as everyone not enjoying the raiding concept or being able to do it reliably. Otherwise, if we're really grumbling about MMO stagnation, the whole "raid = best stuff" philosophy is one of the first places we'd need to start addressing, as no one really wants to be 6-12+ months behind. Content's best for everyone when it's fresh, after all.
    I don't think top end gear should be given out for participation - it should be on performance. The issue is that SE don't do anything difficult outside of 4 fights every 8 months.

    Ex Primal rewards I feel are right for their difficulty level, although I wish they would bring back jewelry that is equal to current tome gear (not upgraded).

    Diadem in its current form should absolutely not have relevant gear. Its a snoozefest where the only challenge is staying awake while doing it. Remove the difficulty levels from Diadem and input them in the mobs. S ranks should be extreme level bosses that give end game rewards (but with some sort of mechanic to "lock out" an island to prevent them getting zerged - or have a cap on the players per map. A ranks at a HM mode that give slightly less potent versions of the end game materia, Normal mobs giving tokens for catchup gear.

    Materia from a weekly 24 man - If they brought out an extreme 24 man, sure. But the current 24 man isn't difficult at all.

    I'd love to see people doing other content than raid content, but it shouldn't be given out like candy for doing jack shit. There should be a challenge to do it when its relevant.

  14. #94

    And there's your problem. You automatically assume that not raiding means someone is doing jack shit. With challenge being relative, in the end it more boils down to wanting what you like to be rewarding on both sides of the spectrum. I have no problem with raiders getting stuff more quickly, within reason mind you, but being the only source of stuff (compounded with Bind on Pickup) is an archaic design principle.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    And there's your problem. You automatically assume that not raiding means someone is doing jack shit. With challenge being relative, in the end it more boils down to wanting what you like to be rewarding on both sides of the spectrum. I have no problem with raiders getting stuff more quickly, within reason mind you, but being the only source of stuff (compounded with Bind on Pickup) is an archaic design principle.
    Where have I assumed that not raiding means someone is doing jack shit? I've said that any battle content currently in FFXIV outside of 8 man content is not difficult.

    I also don't mind it being made available in easier content in later patches down the line, but people absolutely shouldn't be given rewards that are way in excess of the level of effort required to complete said content.

    Otherwise, why not just give everyone level capped gear for logging in? I'm sure some people find that a challenge.

  16. #96

    Otherwise, why not just give everyone level capped gear for logging in? I'm sure some people find that a challenge.
    "I can't think of how to make it work so it obviously wouldn't!"

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    I don't think top end gear should be given out for participation - it should be on performance.
    You're presuming that this should be considered "top-end gear." This hypothetical materia shouldn't be considered raiding-oriented; it should inject fun and excitement into all levels of the game. And not all the materia should be min-max "Increases duration of Blood For Blood"-type stuff; there should also be a good selection of "Changes Shadowbind to Heavy effect" or "Adds Knockback effect to Collective Unconscious" materia.

    Open this game up and let players experiment; if anything turns out to be broken, then deal with it and nerf it later. This game is starving for the slightest bit of creativity.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    "I can't think of how to make it work so it obviously wouldn't!"
    If you want to actually read my posts instead of making unreasonable comments that aren't anything to do with my posts, i'm more than happy to have a discussion, but right now you aren't acting like you want one. Try applying that comment to yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    You're presuming that this should be considered "top-end gear." This hypothetical materia shouldn't be considered raiding-oriented; it should inject fun and excitement into all levels of the game. And not all the materia should be min-max "Increases duration of Blood For Blood"-type stuff; there should also be a good selection of "Changes Shadowbind to Heavy effect" or "Adds Knockback effect to Collective Unconscious" materia.

    Open this game up and let players experiment; if anything turns out to be broken, then deal with it and nerf it later. This game is starving for the slightest bit of creativity.
    I think I did put in another post that lower potency variants in easier content, but I don't think the top end of these should be something that can be done by say, farming diadem as suggested. I've always said I like the idea because even if people end up running the same builds, I think the journey to get to that point (theorycrafting the optimal build for a fight and obtaining the items) is content in itself. But I still think that the game has a big gap in the top end of the difficulty scale - both with raid content and in non raid battle content. Giving top end versions of this materia for difficult versions of treasure maps/diadem hunt mobs/24 man/4 man content would certainly encourage people to do something other than logging in, raiding, logging out. Especially in the "in between" patches.

  19. #99
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    I specifically do NOT think that the "best" materia should drop from raid content; that idea is manifestly terrible and works against the entire idea of the system. Raid content already has sufficient rewards and doesn't need any extra incentive to get people to play it, and hiding the most desirable materia in content that people are already complaining about is self-defeating. In fact, in an ideal scenario, current raid-tier content wouldn't drop any of this materia at all.

    The "good" materia should be spread out fairly liberally around different content. This would accomplish two things:

    1) more people willing to organize/queue for a wider variety of content
    2) more people willing to help out for sidegrade drops

  20. #100

    Nah, you don't just jump directly to people wanting shit mailed to you on login when that's nowhere near what I was advocating. You think forcing people to wait months to improve their characters is okay. I don't, and I doubt you've actually stopped to contemplate the benefit of alternative gearing sources for the PUG scene while content is more relevant. Otherwise, the feelings of a vocal minority who have convinced themselves they're more deserving because they happen to like X over Y isn't doing anyone any good, especially when the raiding culture itself thrives on insular, static groups where you're highly unlikely to ever interact with those you're so determined to keep down.

    Seriously, it's not about people not trying hard enough or sucking too much. It's understanding that the logistics of it all don't make the most hospitable of experiences for every player. Giving people things to do is far more likely to translate to happy players, where not doing so risks boredom and looking elsewhere for their fun.

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