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  1. #61
    Ridill
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    Both my autos take the same amount of dmg when adjusted for AoE differences and was using difference frames with vastly different hps. Even if dt for some reason didn't work on pets my non main target autos were still taking more dmg than a lvl 97 cor with none. And the differences can't be just mnd either given that unless it's counting the OD stuff as a buff but seems doubtful since the dmg increase while severe as much as would be expected. Will need more numbers but if anything the dmg seemed to be more along the lines of if the pet -dt was being counted as +dt

    As far as unlock or locked should add that either pup or cor are unlocking it as it uses it all the time when I'm using cor and pups. Also the problem with the setup above as mentioned by Byrth is it still uses dmg increasing buffs. One or 2 might not sound so bad from the VE descriptions but trust me it's huge. On normal when I was trying to test dmg forgot to fold the roll 1 time and dmg jumped from 700-800 to 5k from that 1 buff. On D it's even more extreme though I wasn't as careful with recording buffs and dmg the most buffs I ever had was 3 and dmg went over 20k

  2. #62
    Impossiblu
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    Prothescar Centursa
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    Balmung
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    Valefor

    Pet thing could be as simple as a sort of reverse-stout servant sort of modifier that the poroggo has. clearly they're attempting to push people away from using pets and mages on this fight in favor of melees and non-standard healers/supports (DNC).

  3. #63
    Yoshi P
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    Arthas

    It's using the move with nothing but cors and pups? Did you have mage subs?

  4. #64
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Corsair is one of the jobs that he uses Quenching Hammer against, I believe.

  5. #65
    Relic Horn
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    Sylph

    Apparently, he can somehow pull off a Light SC with only a single TP move (Magic Hammer).

  6. #66
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasticdan View Post
    It's using the move with nothing but cors and pups? Did you have mage subs?
    had mage subs to might be it but the above huge post said just main will check again without mage subs later

    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    Pet thing could be as simple as a sort of reverse-stout servant sort of modifier that the poroggo has. clearly they're attempting to push people away from using pets and mages on this fight in favor of melees and non-standard healers/supports (DNC).
    Could be though it would have to be more than just SS and have to count gear and innate bonuses for the dmg differences seen. Also maybe a possibility that it's doing something really weird and counting the masters buffs for the pet...

  7. #67
    Yoshi P
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    Arthas

    Are you noticing the dmg increase on bst pets as well or just automatons? It could be that maneuvers count as a hidden buff or something.

  8. #68
    Impossiblu
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    Valefor

    bst pets definitely take extra dmg, randy was getting wrecked the first time I brought BST in there

  9. #69
    Ridill
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    So did some quick checks on the ah and no one over there seems to be having the same problems with pets so idk whats up. Or at least they don't mention taking weird random ridiculous amounts of dmg. Though most seem to be using geos and such and full pts so maybe that has something to do with it

  10. #70
    Smells like Onions
    Join Date
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    Can confirm that my pet takes x10 damage with mages. I will be taking 200-300 ae, pet will be taking 800-1500

  11. #71
    Smells like Onions
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    He only uses q hammer if the cor buffs. If he just attacks, he wont use it.

    Q hammer is for mage jobs AND buffs.

  12. #72
    Old Merits
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    Cho'gall

    Most of the talk about this is about VD using full 6man parties of players who could normally handle 135+ content anyway. My testing has been almost entirely done in VE/E due to the single target vs aoe magic casting making VE/E much easier to test the basic mechanics. I've peeked into the harder difficulties and promptly get wrecked by aoe magic casts before I really get a chance to see any of the other differences. ^^;; The early reports were mostly SMN PD strats, now kiting strats, and SMN is probably used to their pets getting wrecked anyway so don't bother reporting that. lol

    Also, figured out how its doing Light... Fire > Magic Hammer = Light SC -_-
    And I have yet to get stun effects (Stun, Sudden Lunge, Flat Blade so far) to land on it at all, so may be immune to that as well.
    I'm the BST btw, ls buddy who tagged along for some of my testing was the PUP. We both saw the same increased dmg behavior on both of our pets.

    Luzaf does not unlock QH, Qultada does, player COR tossing up rolls does not.
    Player BRD does not unlock QH, Ulmia/Joachim does.
    RUN player: Used MH w/ zero buffs, QH immediately after I cast protect on myself. QH unlocked from start if you start w/ runes up. Runes are not dispelled and don't add to QH damage. Something interesting is that I also kept my RUN out of agro range at the start, and it didn't use either hammer until I brought her in range @ 2min mark... Then it used QH > Prov while at 80%+ HP ~_~;;

    Becoming convinced that QH/MH usage is affected by a combination of main jobs in party + buffs.

  13. #73
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
    Sepukku is my Hero
    Therrien's Cum Dumpster

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    So whats the deal with Frog? 6box all melee/dnc?

  14. #74
    Smells like Onions
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    Lots of ways to handle it.

    Kiting works well

    Im testing a theory, but currently having a mage but them not getting on the agro list, locks out pets, but also doesnt activate q hammer. I just soloed intense on normal by keeping apururu out but never engaging. No q hammers, and no pets. dead in under 4min.

  15. #75
    Old Merits
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustinfoley View Post
    Lots of ways to handle it.

    Kiting works well

    Im testing a theory, but currently having a mage but them not getting on the agro list, locks out pets, but also doesnt activate q hammer. I just soloed intense on normal by keeping apururu out but never engaging. No q hammers, and no pets. dead in under 4min.
    Doesn't work for players.. Tried that w/ a blu 40'+ away and QH was spammed until Providence was used. QH stopped being spammed at that point, but was still used so it doesn't do a full lockout.

    * Just tried w/ a GEO out of range, and QH/MH lockout worked for the most part.. Prov was still used @ 5min mark though.

  16. #76
    Ridill
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    More qh goodness

    So did some testing with pet dt and it definitely seems to be working.

    mdb attachment definitely helping a bunch to the point where I'm almost thinking either it's a much bigger affect than I would've imagined or the autos had a much lower mdb than normally makes sense when you think about other magic dmg they taken. Unless maybe being near it or being hit by it lowers mdb? Maybe int down near it? Would be a possible reason why farther mule takes more. Though at this point I'm half convinced to counter the pc killer effect they gave an nm last time they gave one increased dmg to non pcs this time lol

    So in a surprise twist int not mnd is the target side state modifier. Wouldn't be surprised if it was an element other than light like other since other hammer is light either. Effect doesn't appear to be huge though. Hard to say exactly with some mdt and mdb but based on what I saw 1-2 dmg per int changed. Though that's for no buffs how exactly buffs are factored in is hard to say but I'd imagine they might be a multiplier.

    pup/nin X2 + cor/nin would still keep it doing hammer only. So yeah not really sure about your locking ideas unless they are a works on lower or higher difficulties only thing as just trying in Normal. Summoning a bunch of mage trusts and keeping them out of range didn't work either. Still QH spam. Also think there might be some sort of cap on QH buff dmg added. Like 2 on VD was 12k but 12 was only 30k

    Also nope even on VD same setups still doing the qh

  17. #77
    Campaign
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I'm almost thinking either it's a much bigger affect than I would've imagined or the autos had a much lower mdb than normally
    Automatons in general have shit MDB and MEva.
    They probably have comparable levels to those of a naked level 99 player.
    The Animators give a lot of raw stats to the pet, but they do NOT make them higher level (so no level correction formula) and appearently they do not give Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion and MDB. It's been discussed on official forums but SE is ignoring us sadly.

    Altough this kinda doesn't explain your results, I was just talking in general.


    Has anybody tried to zerg with Perfect Defense? Guess after 30 seconds PD won't be enough, possibly? =/

  18. #78
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Automatons in general have shit MDB and MEva.
    They probably have comparable levels to those of a naked level 99 player.
    The Animators give a lot of raw stats to the pet, but they do NOT make them higher level (so no level correction formula) and appearently they do not give Magic Accuracy, Magic Evasion and MDB. It's been discussed on official forums but SE is ignoring us sadly.

    Altough this kinda doesn't explain your results, I was just talking in general.


    Has anybody tried to zerg with Perfect Defense? Guess after 30 seconds PD won't be enough, possibly? =/
    Well by much lower I mean severely negative even with merits since I'm comparing to a 97 character. That said I might be a little off on how much it is effecting it. Tried throwing 2 autos one with attachment one without and results are erratic. Seems they are resisting a high amount of the time making it hard to tell what the real dmg is especially with the aoe dmg thing now and occasionally the non tank taking hate

    I think they expect us to attachments and stat mods and gear. Which would work if our weapons had something comparable to the huge skills on weapons and we didn't have to always choose only 1 stat on each gear

    I haven't tried it but you can kill it really fast if you don't die. Thing is incredibly weak and doesn't seem to have much in the way of any dmg resistances. Could probably kill it in a good 3-4 step skillchain using strong ws.

    edit: check ah someone saying frog song does aoe mdb down so yep that might be the culprit here

  19. #79
    Relic Shield
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    Rehn Valor
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    I zerg as war, geo geo whm smn. Voke > pd +asylum then scourge > reso > scourge for double light. Another reso usually finishes it off. Downside is required revit in between runs, since wild card doesn't affect asylum.

  20. #80
    Ridill
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    Does asylum stop the move from dispelling buffs?

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