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  1. #1101
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    I just finished the Kojin quests and this is some M. Night Shyamalan BS.

    Spoiler: show
    So the twist is that no one else remembers that Tsukumo was alive at all, and supposedly it was all just Kabuto's imagination, or a vision that appeared only to him (but that the Echo allowed the WoL to see).
    But screw that noise, I'm no idiot. So of course, I went back to the cutscene replay. Lo and behold, all the cutscenes for Kojin quests (except the very first one) have been truncated to the treasure item arriving in the Kojin vault. That's fine, because the first cutscene gives me all I need.


    Bunshin hears it talking, looks directly at it and basically names it.


    All of the Kojin are startled by Tsukumo's orders. Notice how they are all looking directly at it, not looking in random directions for some disembodied voice.


    Again, all of the Kojin are directly facing Tsukumo.


    This is insulting to the intelligence of the players, and the shoddy coverup doesn't help. This story arc is like the bizarro version of the Vath arc (which was one of the best in the game). This "twist" has ruined the entire Kojin storyline.

  2. #1102

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    So if I understand this right(I haven't done such a quest), the quest reward is
    Spoiler: show
    the thing being worshiped?

  3. #1103
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    You mean the final Kojin quest reward?

    Spoiler: show
    It's just beast tokens and exp, I think.

  4. #1104
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I just finished the Kojin quests and this is some M. Night Shyamalan BS.
    Spoiler: show
    The way I understood it was that everyone lost their memories of it when it went away, not that it never happened.

    I seem to recall the elder saying that those memories were only meant for Kabuto, so everyone else forgot about it. Then something about the player character also remembers because of their strong bond with Kabuto, or because they have the echo, or "special powers", or some other bullshit excuse.

  5. #1105
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Still doesn't make sense.

    Spoiler: show
    The female armorer melded the materia from Tsukumo to Kabuto's helm after Tsukumo was fully gone, adding that the materia must have been what gave Tsukumo life. So when did everyone "forget"?

  6. #1106
    D. Ring
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    After the party? I dunno. It's hard to give a concrete answer when the reasoning is "magic happened". You're not wrong that it's batshit crazy no matter how you spin it. I just don't think they're trying to say the series of events never happened, just that no one remembers. The hows and whens of it are all hand-waved away.

    I didn't cache the text anywhere, so I don't remember the specifics. If you have the text somewhere, then re-read what the elder said in that last quest. I think he tries to explain it. I swear he says something along the lines of "I believe you. I had something similar happen to me in the past, but no one would believe me. I believe these memories are for you and you alone." Either that or I've completely forgotten and my memory is fabricating things, since I finished it several weeks ago.

    Edit: I remember now that xivdb caches quest text, so here's the relevant parts.
    Spoiler: show
    BUNCHIN
    Curious that only the two of you can recall Tsukumo as more than a mere doll.
    BUNCHIN
    But perhaps this is not without reason. I believe the kami was meant to guide you on a journey of enlightenment. A journey only you were meant to remember.
    BUNCHIN
    Yet it seems our friend here posseses a rare gift, one that allows her to recall that which others cannot.
    KABUTO
    You needn't mince words, Elder. You think this all a figment of my imagination, don't you?
    BUNCHIN
    Not at all. In fact, I had a similar experience many years ago. At the time I assumed no one would believe me, and so I have kept it to myself all this time.
    BUNCHIN
    There are myriad kami in this world, each with their own will, their own purpose. In the end, it would seem this kami was meant not for the Divine Circle, but for you.

  7. #1107

    I see here a lot of people who aren't very familiar with Japanese kami/yokai/ayakashi stories. Often only certain special people can see or hear them, and especially in the case of kami, it's usually totally up to them whether they will be seen or not and whether they want to be remembered or not. They are powerful gods, after all.

    It's very typical for Japanese folklore stories. For stories along these same lines I recommend reading the manga Natsume's Book of Friends. So it's not actually insulting to the player's intelligence, it's because you're not weeb enough

  8. #1108
    Resident Moogle
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    So what's the excuse for Kojin of the Blue wearing green armor when Kojin of the Red wear red?

  9. #1109
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaisha View Post
    So what's the excuse for Kojin of the Blue wearing green armor when Kojin of the Red wear red?
    This is the best explanation I've seen, but it's still a weird excuse.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...on_the_kojins/

  10. #1110

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    I see here a lot of people who aren't very familiar with Japanese kami/yokai/ayakashi stories. Often only certain special people can see or hear them, and especially in the case of kami, it's usually totally up to them whether they will be seen or not and whether they want to be remembered or not. They are powerful gods, after all.

    It's very typical for Japanese folklore stories. For stories along these same lines I recommend reading the manga Natsume's Book of Friends. So it's not actually insulting to the player's intelligence, it's because you're not weeb enough
    Oh thats kinda cool. That seems like that'd be super easy to introduce to the story though, like an off-beat comment about how the kami have powers over people's memories of them.

  11. #1111

    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    This is the best explanation I've seen, but it's still a weird excuse.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...on_the_kojins/
    This is also not weird. Japanese is not the only language that never differentiated between green and blue until recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E...on_in_language
    Actually, in Japanese, a green traffic light is still called "ao" (blue). It's another thing that's very normal in the culture. And because the Far East in XIV is very "Edo period Japan" it actually makes more sense to call them blue than green, as that is the term that would have been used at the time.

  12. #1112

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    This is also not weird. Japanese is not the only language that never differentiated between green and blue until recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%E...on_in_language
    Actually, in Japanese, a green traffic light is still called "ao" (blue). It's another thing that's very normal in the culture. And because the Far East in XIV is very "Edo period Japan" it actually makes more sense to call them blue than green, as that is the term that would have been used at the time.
    Huh. Thats quite interesting. I wonder why its theres a green-blue divide and not a say.... blue-purple or red-orange divide?

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