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  1. #41
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    Also separate glamours for separate jobs of the same role please. All three tanks leveled I like them to look different especially since they keep releasing job specific AF sets.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven19 View Post
    Also separate glamours for separate jobs of the same role please. All three tanks leveled I like them to look different especially since they keep releasing job specific AF sets.

    100% agree with this.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hioki View Post
    I think someone brought up making a glamour book at some point on the OF. I'm not certain if it received a lot of support but it made a lot of sense. Acquire the armor once at some point and then just have it added to the book. You can call up the glamour and apply it to armor through the normal glamour catalysts.
    We’ve got an official answer about glamour book: it’s not coming.

    I think that the main reason why they have decided to stick with the general inventory for glamours is related to monetization. And the fact that they have introduced the Glamours system just one day before the Additional retainers service for a fee system is also not a mere coincidence.

    Let’s take as an example an adventurer, who is not a huge glamour collector (and from whom it would not look reasonable to request additional payment for it), but he still keeps some pieces of rare good-looking gear in his inventory. He may also not be a huge omnicrafter, but still needs some inventory space for it. Then he may want to save some gear that could be useful for leveling other classes, he needs some space for all sorts of tokens (to acquire and upgrade general gear and weapons, relic related, beast tribes related, etc.), foods, potions, dyes, and so on. Occasionally he needs additional free space for things like farming aetherial gear in Diadem or gathering/crafting collectables. So while he may not be fond too much of any kind of activity in particular, when all of this adds up, he easily runs in a situation when he feels that he needs more inventory space.

    The FFXIV’s current system of inventory space monetization allows to take into account the general level of engagement of a player with the game (including all sorts of activities at once), when it’s starting to put pressure on him in terms of spending additional money on the game. The base principle here is that the more a player is engaged with the game, the more money he can be asked to pay, because he would more easily spend additional money on something that he is so much fond of. If players were asked to pay additional money, when they just start playing the game or just start doing a particular activity in the game, that could scare them off entirely. The current system allows a player to start any activity while saving some free space for it (from other activities), but at the same time it counts up free space used by any activity right from the beginning (even when a player has not passed a certain threshold when it would be OK to ask him to pay additional money for continuing doing that particular activity). This system looks universal, well thought through, and I don’t think that they will give it up.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spira View Post
    as far as new jobs go I actually expect there to be 3 more jobs. 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 DPS.
    because if they did that it would put the ratio of tank to healer to dps jobs to be 1 : 1 : 2, just like duty finder. granted distribution of jobs in the game isn't equal, the proportion of roles would kinda match up.

    apart from the DF roles (Tank/Healer/DPS), there is the distinction between DPS roles that has been made earlier on in this thread (ranged phys/ranged magic/melee), but theres one other categorization which i think is an important factor in considering new jobs.. and that is.. job itemization.

    right now, all jobs fit within 7 job archetype gearsets

    fending - tanks / heavy armor (mostly metal)
    healing - healers / not armor (mostly cloth)
    maiming - melee / heavy armor (mostly metal)
    striking - melee / light armor (mostly leather)
    scouting - melee / not armor (mostly cloth)
    aiming - physical ranged / light armor (mostly leather)
    casting - magical ranged / not armor (mostly cloth)

    now there are 2 obvious reasons for such distinctions. firstly, primary stat used, and secondly, job flavor.
    from a development point of view, it seems quite unlikely that they'll add another archetype because there are already a good variety of options around and some of them are quite underused (maiming / striking / scouting only belong to 1 job each). adding a new archetype also means going back to old content and adding 1 additional set to every tier of gear in the game - which is quite a fair bit of work. even in HW all 3 jobs added used existing archetypes.

    however, based on the way they currently categorize jobs, it also means that jobs won't be able to have a lot of flavor unless they are changed radically.
    Take Red Mage for example, which is all but confirmed at this point. The job is traditionally known to be more physically able, being able to wield melee weapons and cast magic - to that extent, it would seem odd if they were made to wear only cloth robes when they wield melee weapons. On the other hand tho, you couldn't just put them on Scouting gear unless their primary stat is DEX, which also seems quite odd. So the dilemma really is, unless RDM deviates from typical mage primary stat, its stuck looking like a ranged caster, even if it could be a melee mage.

    to give a more extreme example.. right now all tanks and all healers run on the same stats, and this in turn determines what they can wear. If Dancer were a healer job (think FFXI's version), it should be pretty agile / nimble and should be wearing something similar to Scouting gear visually and wouldnt make a lot of sense to put them on current healing gear. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if its primary stat were DEX, since dancing is about movement of the body, and not mind, but this requires them to change up primary stats. I kinda hope they do.
    One way they could work around the stats is make DNC heals influenced by DEX and give RDM strong STR and INT values (but not as high as pure melees and casters), allowing STR to influence their physical skills and INT for magic abilities (or create new spells that rely on MND such as enfeebles and Dia (I,II,III, etc), with potency(s) that match Aero and Stone levels). Introduce a new archetype of melee caster gear enhancing those stats that RDM can use and I assume Foils and Degens will be their weapon of choice.

  5. #45
    Ridill
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    You won't have that with DNC. Thanks to the party bonus system we already have an issue where only 1 healer had a MND benefit and 2 have PIE benefits. The next healer will likely compete directly with WHM (And we've seen the AST get buffed to the point they can compete against SCH) and will come with a MND party buff.

    RDM could come as a healer, but at this point I really doubt they'd do that because of RDM's weapon being a sword. Imagine giving someone a sword and then telling them to stand away from the party and support.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth View Post
    One way they could work around the stats is make DNC heals influenced by DEX and give RDM strong STR and INT values (but not as high as pure melees and casters)
    In this game, that means they would be both a gimped melee and a gimped caster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    Imagine giving someone a sword and then telling them to stand away from the party and support.
    WHM and BLM were still getting new shields well into 2.x.

  7. #47
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    well, as a slightly more efficient alternative, they could introduce a new archetype of gear (melee mage) and put at least 2 new jobs on it. RDM healer wouldn't be far fetched to me at this point, it would essentially be a melee healer, but it does somewhat go against the establish DF paradigm - and leads to 2 things - 1 being, if they don't need to melee to heal, a lot of players are probably just going to stay far away (cos its safer), unless they're that much beefier as healers.. and 2, if their dps is actually significant, it might upset the balance where fights are not designed/tuned with healer DPS in mind. Then again, SCH exists.

    As far as new jobs and new roles go, I think theres definitely room for a new tank with a different playstyle, tho I'm struggling to find a fresh concept that would work well for it. Maybe one that has a pet assisting it, like Beastmaster.

    Healers... i think 3 is enough for now, especially since AST can essentially be played in 2 ways, unless when paired with a SCH. Any new healer would need to be pretty radical to offer anything new. Melee healer i guess. Post 60 abilities will also probably play a big role in shaping how the jobs evolve later on.

    That kinda leaves DPS really - theres always too many DPS, but also never enough. I'd like to see another heavy armor class, or a mage.

  8. #48
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    WHM and BLM were still getting new shields well into 2.x.
    The last time they got a shield was against Leviathan and that's been retconned. You now get 2h versions (Though you can trade for 1h wand and board if you desired).

    I want to say its been 2 and a half years since they introduced a shield for those classes.

    http://puu.sh/rXByl/a62f4bc258.jpg

    FFXIV does a better job satisfying the job fantasy and making all jobs relevant in content.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    Yeah, because we need more Melee DPS.
    Well, either that...

    or yet another version of a SCH

    or another ranged caster...

    or another tank people will be terrible at....

    or another version of BRD....

    We have only so few options D:

  10. #50
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    Raid's couldn't deviate much in 2.1 with the composition forcing you to take one of each job or else suffer LB bar reduction.

    So you'd have PLD and WAR for tanks. DRG and MNK for Melee. BRD for Ranged. And WHM and SCH for healing. So the only choice you had was with magic DPS with BLM or SMN.

    If they do 3 more jobs in 4.0 they'll be against a wall and a hard place making more jobs for the same role (Hell they're already at it now). Though I'm hoping they go on with the rejoining at some point and take the opportunity to remake the game a third time.

  11. #51
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    We only have 2 casters in this game (though BRD and MCH sure act like them somewhat) and 3 healers so I wager that RDM will be a primarily a caster role but with some strong melee abilities that you switch between, probably with a stance (every 30 seconds for BALANCE). That way, you can melee when its appropriate and use..idk Red Lotus Blade (damage would have to be comparable to other DPS if not slightly lower) and then back up, switch stances and cast enfeebles or Dias (again, with the same potency as Aero and Stone tiers). It could be a fun class that way.

  12. #52
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    But then you're introducing variables.

    Why would a RDM swap stances?

    If its to fufill a Melee or Caster role then you're forcing any person who picks RDM to have two hotbars ready to go.

    Then you get the second question. Do they do more DPS as a Melee or a Caster. Or are there moments where they do more DPS in melee than as a caster. Considering the goal of the battle system adjustment is to make things simpler I doubt it.

    If you were to take DRG as a staple. I'm pretty sure they want to get away from Heavensward buff management and go back to combo management.

  13. #53
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    I'd love a dynamic, stance based job where the stances are actually part of its gameplay and not just a glorified means of forcing you into a locked stance, partially why WAR is the example they need to just say screw it.

  14. #54
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    Can you explain what you mean by that? Switching stances is actually part of WAR's gameplay.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    You won't have that with DNC. Thanks to the party bonus system we already have an issue where only 1 healer had a MND benefit and 2 have PIE benefits. The next healer will likely compete directly with WHM (And we've seen the AST get buffed to the point they can compete against SCH) and will come with a MND party buff.

    RDM could come as a healer, but at this point I really doubt they'd do that because of RDM's weapon being a sword. Imagine giving someone a sword and then telling them to stand away from the party and support.
    if they would make 2. stats matter they could way more buffs. Like AST gets spellspeed, sch pie, whm mnd, blm int, smn det, nin crit hit rate, drg str, mnk skill speed, pld -pdt, drk -mdt, war vit etc


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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by that? Switching stances is actually part of WAR's gameplay.
    I read that as WAR being the perfect example of effective duality

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by that? Switching stances is actually part of WAR's gameplay.
    But stance switching only exists within Tanks and Healers. WAR stance swapping and Healer Cleric swapping is the best example of this. However this does not exist in any form for DPS. Unless you count BLM's Ice/Fire mechanic.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotsudoku View Post
    I read that as WAR being the perfect example of effective duality
    Ah, well then maybe I misunderstood. I also think WAR has the most fluid stance dancing example currently in the game. DRK grit/bloodweapon feels pretty good too though. I still think PLD oath switching should be like WAR, off gcd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    But stance switching only exists within Tanks and Healers. WAR stance swapping and Healer Cleric swapping is the best example of this. However this does not exist in any form for DPS. Unless you count BLM's Ice/Fire mechanic.
    I personally think cleric's stance is a huge piece of shit that needs to be reworked or deleted, so I won't even begin to defend it. (Add accuracy to it at least if you're going to make us keep it, shit's ridiculous).

  19. #59
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    RDM will likely be melee/caster, but imo you guys are thinking too hard on the melee component. They could just go with en-magic, modify it from physical to magic and calculate damage based on INT or RDM's may summon a magic sword ala alisae.

    With the way summoner exists, tbh, the possibilities are endless.

  20. #60
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    RDM won't use summon book. Alisae's Lore entry specifically states her book is designed for it and she spent time training to do it. People would throw their shit against a wall if a new weapon became another book.

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