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  1. #1001
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    I don't know who your second person is, but I could watch ImStillDaDaddy playing fucking Pong and it would be entertaining. It has 0% to due with the gameplay and 100% due to his personality, esp. when he gets on tangents talking shit about people or the game lmao.

  2. #1002
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Katsu View Post
    he was also like 14-15 at the time,
    Not experienced enough. I mean how good could he possibly get in a game that had shit as technical as this
    lol

    https://youtu.be/BF4xxx4rUZg
    You reminded me of the classic.



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  3. #1003
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    Hah, to be fair even a decent Yun or Bison should never lose to an ibuki unless it's Sako. Yun is a god damned nightmare for her.

  4. #1004
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    All of the Intro vocals were removed.

  5. #1005
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    Event Hubs on Gamerbee feeling players are losing personality

    The comments here, especially the early ones, I agree with.

    SFIV: Haitani vs Gamerbee? Shit is gonna be awesome, both have their own way of playing their characters, you can instantly identify the players by their style.

    SFV: Haitani vs Gamerbee? They play the same character, Necalli, and you couldn't tell which is which for your life the vast majority of the time, youre gonna see the exact same combos, and it's cool, but it lacks the "something" (hype/personality/etc)

  6. #1006
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    Haitani doesn't play Adon in SF4, nor does Gamerbee play Makoto.

    If you were talking about Itazan vs. Snake Eyez or NuckleDu vs. Dieminion, where both players play the same character in both games, then sure. But mirror matches are inherently less interesting, because there isn't any pressure for one character to exploit/evade matchup advantages; it's all straight reads.

    I think a lot of people later on in the comments effectively addressed the "you can't tell who's playing" perspective.

  7. #1007
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    To be fair, I couldn't tell which Chun was different from the other Chun in 3S, and I love that game. Was hard to tell two elite Rufus players from one another as well. That's how it goes sometimes, though its not an excuse to KEEP solitary characters in the top spot forever. We live in an age of instant character rebalancing, so there's no excuse to have an entire game dominated by 2-3 characters, like it was with 3rd Strike.

    I don't care how similar two people's Necali is if one of them isn't playing Necali because the game is varied enough to warrant picking different characters. You can fix shit like that even without touching the dial-a-combo system and the jab-spam.

  8. #1008
    Mr. Bananagrabber
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    You could tell if it was Justin playing Rufus by him constantly dropping the Ultra and getting Snake Strike instead.

  9. #1009
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    Maybe you couldn't discern the differences, but SFIV definitely allowed for varying play styles among the same character.

    Take Abel for example, which was a character that really didn't have the much in the way up combo variety. He had one bread and butter into Ultra, 1 command grab, and F. MK which allowed him to get in.

    Despite all that: Shiro, Strider, and Rico played vastly different than each other.

    Shiro's approach to mixing you up was patient as hell. Shiro relied on Abel's high/low mixups to set up his Tornado Throw. Rico was balls to the wall and would harass you with extended block strings. Then he'd take his opportunity to bait jump backs or reversals. (see the Salt Maker vid) Strider would hang around mid screen and land the most clutch Fw MK's into mix ups.

    SFV just doesn't allow for those varying approaches which has people salty in the game's early stages.

  10. #1010
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    Du's Guile is not the same as Chris G's Guile.
    Punk's Karin is not the same as Justin's Karin.
    FChamp's Dhalsim is not the same as Arturo's Dhalsim.
    etc.

    I mean, tell me the difference between Justin's SA2 Chun and the other ten thousand SA2 Chuns? Tell me the difference between Daigo's O.Sagat and Choi's O.Sagat? There are optimized gameplans for linear characters in every SF. The less a character relies on mixup-heavy rushdown, the less you are going to see different iterations of attack sequences.

    You can look at two Storm players that are wildly different, and two Cable players that are mostly the same. That doesn't tell you anything about whether MVC2 as a game is full of linear copycat characters.

  11. #1011
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    You could easily take the top 3-5 best players in the World with each SF4 character and ID them without names on the screen, at least when it was the main game. It is impressive as hell how well that game cultivated and allowed for all play-styles.

  12. #1012
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Du's Guile is not the same as Chris G's Guile.
    Punk's Karin is not the same as Justin's Karin.
    FChamp's Dhalsim is not the same as Arturo's Dhalsim.
    etc.
    Most of those differences are apparent due to play style. Arturo and Fchamp utilize the same exact tools, only to different extents.

    In IV, you can ID a person not only based off which normals they preferred to use, but also by how they used them in certain scenarios. You see NONE of that in SFV.

    Hell, we used to name use case scenarios after players. Has that ever happened in SFV?

    Example: SFIV Ryu had a good Cr. HP but how many people were using it as a full screen whiff punish into Super? You already know who. You simply don't see that variance of use cases in SFV. There is no "Daigo Special" or "Smug juggles". There's just right / wrong decision making which makes shit pretty lame in regards to personal play style. It's hard as fuck to make a character your own in V.

  13. #1013
    Conejita's Jolly
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    Remember Seth Killian was commenting @ Evo 201X how SFIV pushed the boundaries and ought to bee seen as a form of expression and not merely as a game? And how Ryu was Daigo's conduit to express himself and all this esoteric bullshit? Turns out nigga was right lul.

    Where the fuck is Seth, btw? I may or may not be alone on this one, but I miss his commentary.

  14. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deejay View Post
    Most of those differences are apparent due to play style. Arturo and Fchamp utilize the same exact tools, only to different extents.
    How does this refute the point?

    The argument being made is that everyone plays the same characters the same, and that you cannot tell players apart without nametags. This is obviously not true, as per the examples above (using the same tools to different extents is the definition of a different playstyle). So what's the problem?

    It seems like most of the points being made have to do with which combos people prefer to use. I guess if you consider that to be important, that's your prerogative, but I don't really see that as a meaningful difference.

  15. #1015

    fkn lol @ trying to be reasonable with this autist shill who drank the entire swimming pool filled koolaid.

    the game is dead, top players come out every week blasting this shit. sales are shit, stream views down, tournament attendance down, subscriptions down, fat fuck wizard refuses to release EVO numbers because they are embarrassing,

    literally, every single objective measure of a game's success/health of a competitive scene points to a sharp downward trend, yet you have this one stupid, delusional fucking shill trying his best damage control for a game he sucks dick at.

    Knowing all this, I'm SURE Capcom execs sleep peacefully at night because spiderautist thinks the game is great LMAO.

  16. #1016
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    EVO 2017 - Where everyone is not playing SFV

    Well if your measure for varying play style starts and ends at ones willingness to block, then yeah sure. I can tell the difference between Arturo and Fchamp because one person prefers to block more than the other.

    They both use teleport mixups to get damage. They both need to use those same mixups to win and rarely KO people without taking risk. The game doesn't lend itself to allowing Sim to be played any other way.

    Du and Dieminion take two opposite approaches to Guile, yet only 1 of them is winning tournaments in SFV. The game just doesn't lend itself to varying play styles as much as SFIV did.


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  17. #1017
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    If you're using "winning tournaments" as the standard then most of the unique playstyles of SF4 don't matter because they won as many meaningful tournaments as Dieminion has in SF5 (somewhere around zero).

    The original claim was that you can't tell players apart without nametags, but it seems like you're admitting that one can actually tell more defensive players from more offensive ones. And if the next step is to say, "Well, Du wins more than any other Guile, Punk wins more than any other Karin, etc." then it's easy to identify players in any game by looking at the match results.

  18. #1018
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    Dieminion and Du had success with Guile playing him two different ways in SF4. Infiltration/Tokido/Eita with Akuma all very different.

    It's all where the players spaced as Dee Jay pointed out with the three Abels. Since SFV rewards pressing buttons (because defense sucks dick) most characters play similar and thus the players play the same

    If you try to play footsies with Ken you lose like Momochi does. if you play retarded and do full screen specials, DPs through block strings you win some games like Eita. When Momochi goes Eita mode he wins.

  19. #1019
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    I didn't use "winning tournaments" as the only standard when I compared the top Abel players but you can go ahead and grasp at straws if you'd like?

  20. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deejay View Post
    I didn't use "winning tournaments" as the only standard when I compared the top Abel players but you can go ahead and grasp at straws if you'd like?
    For SF5, you said that the fact that Dieminion isn't winning (like Du is) renders the difference in playstyle irrelevant.
    So why is "winning tournaments" the required bar to pass for an SF5 playstyle to "count", but not for SF4?

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