Why don't you go to a church or why don't you believe in God/a god?

[AnnaMolly]

*reads title*

Well, OP, this story takes place back when I was three years old. I was taken to Arkansas for a family reunion (which is as far as you have to read to understand why I'm a tad fucked up) and had to stay with a very, very, very, VERY religious great aunt. When I say religious, I mean she didn't own a TV, he house hadn't been redecorated since the 50's, and she had her hair in a bun and wore a long-sleeved, ankle-length dress in the 90's. So, I wake up from my nap and walk into their living room to find a man I didn't know standing over my great-aunt, holding a bible. My great-aunt was flopping around on the floor like a discarded catfish, tears in her eyes, and she was emitting some high-pitched screeches and talking in gibberish. I see this and, being the three-year-old little pussy that I am, start crying. My grandma drops my great-aunt's hand and comes over to comfort me "Oh, it's ok honey, she's just talking to Jesus."

To this day, I am fairly uncomfortable around overly-religious folk. That's why, OP. That's why.

[NynJa]

This thread goes no further until bitchmade OP tells us what he believes.

Dont you still have a gold title?
Shame him, its your donationary right.

[Zetanio]

Shit man. You're right.

[Andalusian girls]

Not to derail, but this was explained to me once. Supposedly one of the reasons quantum physics is a big deal is that there may be spontaneous creation of particles when you get to the subatomic level. If that's true, with sufficient enough time (i.e. the infinity of time before the known universe) you could have spontaneous creation of the matter necessary for the Big Bang. No matter how low the probability, it will happen given enough time. Thus the emphasis on finding the "God Particle" so to speak.

All that's necessary is that you believe that natural laws (logic, physics, etc.) can exist in a vacuum.

even in the absence of such (some manner of quantum fluctuation nay?) being the case God of the gaps is not a rational argument. there will likely always be some aspect of existence science can theorize about but not prove, but 'we don't know' =/= God! it says a great deal about the species the state of not knowing is sufficiently discomforting we supply a paternalistic defense mechanism in the sky as the solution.

[Spicyryan]

even in the absence of such (some manner of quantum fluctuation nay?) being the case God of the gaps is not a rational argument. there will likely always be some aspect of existence science can theorize about but not prove, but 'we don't know' =/= God! it says a great deal about the species the state of not knowing is sufficiently discomforting we supply a paternalistic defense mechanism in the sky as the solution.

People are just irrational and emotionally needy fodder. I mean their brains on religion trigger the same sections in the brain as love and drugs, so what can anyone expect?

[thetruepandagod]

So does fucking food you intellectual toe-dipping twat.

[Byrthnoth]

The problems with the God of the Gaps (and the watchmaker sub-argument) has been apparent for hundreds of years, but it keeps being used. For those who don't know, this is the idea that God is responsible for everything we can't otherwise explain in a deterministic fashion. So when we were really ignorant and didn't understand gravity, God was the one who made things fall down. Now that we understand gravity, it's no longer God's responsibility to make things fall. Because God's dominion shrinks as any individual's understanding increases, this is seen as a logical flaw. If we ever come up with a complete unified field theory, God might be shit out of luck and no longer have a role (unless you want to credit God with making all the rules). You see this in much more trivial examples all the time:
Ex. "Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that." - Bill O'Reilly

Rather than treat the "God of the Gaps" fallacy as an argument for the existence of God, I prefer to look at it as an explanation for religion. I think it's likely an accurate explanation.
Question: "Why do you believe in God?"
Answer: "Tides comes in, tides goes out. I can't explain that."

I mean, if you use Occam's Razor and accept that within our lifetimes there's a pretty reasonable chance we will reach a consensus about the rules that govern basically everything from a few seconds after the big bang to now, it gets really difficult to argue for an inert-yet-omnipotent God.

[BerenTebogo]

Not to derail, but this was explained to me once. Supposedly one of the reasons quantum physics is a big deal is that there may be spontaneous creation of particles when you get to the subatomic level. If that's true, with sufficient enough time (i.e. the infinity of time before the known universe) you could have spontaneous creation of the matter necessary for the Big Bang. No matter how low the probability, it will happen given enough time. Thus the emphasis on finding the "God Particle" so to speak.

All that's necessary is that you believe that natural laws (logic, physics, etc.) can exist in a vacuum.

The "god particle" and quantum fluctuations don't actually have anything to do with each other, but that's okay, I don't understand the law like you do so you get a pass.

But yes, the gist of what you are saying is correct. Spontaneous vacuum pair creation-annihilation is very much a real and measurable effect. In a vacuum, virtual particles and anti-particles will spontaneously create and destroy each other. The technicality of it is a bit above a BG religion thread, but it is due to the superposition of particle energy states.

It also isn't a good topic to cite re: big bang theory because it most likely has nothing at all to do with it. It may be tangentially relevant in inflation theory, but inflation theory and BBT are not strictly the same.

[BerenTebogo]

Also I attended a talk today about a planned method extrasolar space exploration for the first time in the history of humanity. You know how they are proposing to do this? To take a single computer chip with CCD cameras, magnetic field measuring devices, etc about the size of the apple watch chip, and attach it to a 4m sq area, 0.4g sail and accelerate it to 1/5 the speed of light using ground based laser arrays.

Literally sending off a space pirate ship to another star system using lasers - WITHIN. OUR. LIFETIMES.

But nah people need a god to help them study for a history test or some shit.

Edit:

ib4 "what is this?! A pirate ship for ants?!"

Edit 2: pre-emptive link
https://breakthroughinitiatives.org/Initiative/3

[thetruepandagod]

This is exactly how you piss off aliens and make them come harvest us for our virility.

[Spicyryan]

So does fucking food you intellectual toe-dipping twat.

And so does music, sex, anything that is rewarding. While I accept that I am a dunce, I think that is expected of food, but not ones imaginary friends.

Anyway, I just keep things simple most of the time. The answer to the whole question is because they are mentally jerking off, and we can't expect much better from a bunch of animals.

[Hellfury]

a bit cliche, but



They weren't called the dark ages for lack of electricity.

[Roranora]

God was invented by cavemen to explain thunder.

Re: church. It's a bland way to spend those oh-so-finite weekend hours. To each his own, but most any other activity is more enjoyable to me, never mind the mental gymnastics necessary to be a believer. Even if I were religious, I'd still probably seldom attend church.

[Greatguardian]

The "god particle" and quantum fluctuations don't actually have anything to do with each other, but that's okay, I don't understand the law like you do so you get a pass.

But yes, the gist of what you are saying is correct. Spontaneous vacuum pair creation-annihilation is very much a real and measurable effect. In a vacuum, virtual particles and anti-particles will spontaneously create and destroy each other. The technicality of it is a bit above a BG religion thread, but it is due to the superposition of particle energy states.

It also isn't a good topic to cite re: big bang theory because it most likely has nothing at all to do with it. It may be tangentially relevant in inflation theory, but inflation theory and BBT are not strictly the same.

^ To expand on this slightly, the "God particle", aka the "god damn hard to find particle" is a reference to the title of a book about the Higgs Boson, which was discovered in 2012.

[Dimmauk]

Did I ever mention that my mom helps do excorsisms? She also has healing prayer groups where they pray over people and speak in tongues. She also goes to excoristcon every year.

[SamanosukeShiva]

Both of my Mother and Father are non-religious, but growing up in Indonesia, it was sort of a taboo to be non-religious, everyone when registering for ID/Driver license are required to fill in their religion of the approved/recognized 5 religions in Indonesia (Islam, Buddhist, Hinduism, Christianism(Protestant), Catholicism). When I was a child I never see my parents pray or anything like that, they would just tell everybody that they're Buddhist as it's the norm for Chinese Indonesian to be Buddhist or Christian.

I grew up in a predominantly Christian family(all my cousins and aunts/uncles were hardcore Christian, went to church 2x a week), I went to private American-owned Christian school (Bible study is required subject), and was forced to go to Sunday school/Church every Sunday and boy scout every Saturday. I hated going to Sunday school because I would miss my Doraemon and Dragon Ball and other anime show every Sunday morning, so there was always a little resentment towards going to Church in me. One day when I was with my best friend in his house, we were playing pokemon red, I said to him that it's so stupid why the school wouldn't allow us to play Pokemon at school even during lunch break, he replied because the people at school think Pokemons are evil and lowkey said Christianity is stupid. I was like whoa pump the brakes, you can't say that out loud, what if his mom hears it. Turns out his whole family is Atheist, and he even said it out loud that he is an Atheist. I don't know what their family circumstances were but in my 11 years old mind I was like, your secret is safe with me bro, I wont tell anyone.

Few days later I asked my dad why is being an Atheist is a bad thing, to my surprise he told me that it's not actually not a bad thing, and that when he was young he was dating a lot of girls with different religions Islam/Hindu/Christian/etc and he lowkey said he studied their religions to get in their pants and that all religions are basically the same and you don't need religion to be a good person. That kinda stuck with me, although it didn't convert me to an Atheist just yet. Fast forwards a few years, my family had moved to the US. I was a high school sophomore, I listened to NPR a lot in those days, still do, and one day on my lunch break I was in my car about to go out get lunch there was an interview I think it was Fresh Air or Diane Rehm show, I dont remember, they were interviewing Richard Dawkins about his new book and they were talking about Atheism, and I remember thinking that it was so cool that in America that it's actually acceptable to talk about this in public in an open manner, and that kinda convinced me to come out of the closet myself as an Atheist.

[Zetanio]

Where the motherfuck is OP.

[Zealot]

Egon is exercising his beliefs- i.e; abortion is the most pressing thing the government needs to address because the bible says so, but all the stuff about caring for people and making sure these babies you're forcing people to have are given am education, medicine, clean air and water, and a chance at improving their lives is un-American, no matter what some dirty rabbi said 2000 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Zetanio]

Egon is a giant babby

FTFY

[steellord]

I was raised in a relatively strict Mormon household. I had my first doubts about religion around 9 or 10 years old in what I consider to be a pretty funny, albeit nerdy, story. I had just gotten Grandia for Christmas that year and was absolutely loving it (it's still probably a top 3 favorite game ever), and I was too young to really know what it was at the time but I definitely had a little crush on Feena. A few months later, we learned in sunday school about the story of Samson and Delilah, and the teacher explained to us (in innocent and childish terms) the concept of lust, and I came to the conclusion that I was lusting after Feena. Then she brought out some verse in Matthew, iirc, about how "looking at a woman with lust is the same is committing adultery in your heart" and then went on to describe how big of a sin that was. Coupled with the previous revelation, I realized that according to their rules, I had committed adultery, one of the absolute worst sins imaginable, at 10 years old, with a fictional character. That sort of haunting guilt and shame stuck with me for a few more years until I realized just how stupid the rules were and just gave up with it entirely.

I fought my parents on it, but they went with the classic "my house, my rules, you're going to church until you move out" approach. So I did, and I was eagerly awaiting HS graduation and college when I could be done with it forever. Except I didn't get into the college I actually wanted, but I did get accepted to BYU, which I was forced to submit a completely half-assed application to. If anyone ever finds themselves in a similar position, I strongly, strongly recommend not doing it. It was probably the most miserable point of my life. Chronic (up to that point) undiagnosed depression mixed with an environment where everyone is trying to mormon-shame each other by out-mormoning everyone else is a recipe for disaster. I lasted about a semester and a half before I tried to kill myself and got kicked out for the suicide attempt. It took quite a while to recover from that and get my life back on track.

That all being said, I don't hate or harbour any ill will towards religions. I actually really enjoy analyzing them, but I try to separate their mythology from their doctrine. If you filter out the stories about "do this because God said so" and just look at them more as a philosophy of "this is how we suggest you should try to live your life," then almost any religion is great. I think this is one of the most overlooked things by atheists, they get caught up in trying to disprove the mythology side of it instead of looking at the part that actually matters about how you should live; any discrepancy of mythology can be hand-waved away with "well science doesn't know enough to prove that this is impossible" but pointing out the contradictions or problems while just operating in the space created by their own rules tends to be much more important discussion. My personal stance on the mythology part is that I think it's nearly impossible to argue for the typical representation of the Abrahamic God, one that's loving, all-powerful, created us in his image, etc., but I don't deny the possibility of some more neutral universal creator that isn't particularly invested in human life.

This is probably a very offensive comparison, but I find very religious people to be fascinating in the same way that armpit fetishists or conspiracy theorists are. I absolutely don't understand their viewpoints, I really enjoy watching them and psychoanalyzing them to figure out what makes them think the way that they think, what are the signals that people like them find attractive. I like trying to understand their culture without actively participating in it.

I was pressured into applying to Notre Dame and loathed the idea for similar reasons, so i just wrote "reject me" for the essay