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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    I would be typing all day, so the extreme short of it: it is the worst mainstay SF of all-time, and is even worse than most of the strays (SF EX), as well. I'd say the only one that is worse than SFV is SF The Movie arcade cab. Alpha 1 is a tossup.
    So I'm guessing you weren't around for SF3:NG parry weaving and one-button infinites, then.




    SF5's "problems," as agreed upon even by people who like the gameplay, are that they released a completely unfinished game that basically only had offline versus, netplay versus, and single-player survival. The game was a pathetically barren single-player experience and lots of the extra content (characters, colors, costumes, stages) was gated behind free-but-ultra-grindy requirements; e.g. win 50 matches in survival to unlock colors, or pay 70,000 unlock points to purchase a stage (when you get 50 points per match win, online only).

  2. #142
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    Lol yes, I've been an arcade player since SF2/MK1. SF3 was just not around long enough or went underplayed to the point where most forget it. I was an Ibuki main in 2nd Impact when she was broken, and that is actually my 2nd favorite SF to date.

    Also, what Spider-dan just posted regarding what people who enjoy the game play (...lol) was just the surface. The net code is horrible. The "Country" flags never load, so you can hardly ever tell if the person you are about to play is half-way around the world or not. Ranked matches you against people from all over for only fuck knows why. Rage quitting has always been a thing because they have likely coded themselves into a hole, regardless of the changes they have tried making to improve it. On offline versus, only 1 player can select "Rematch and ready". Oh, and the fucking arcade stick they created and marketed with the Ryu art doesn't even work for PC users without downloading 3rd party software (this is about to change, I believe, but way too late to matter). It takes way, way too long to find a match. The loading times also feels like a game from 1999.

    I could go on and on and on without even starting on how bad the game play is...

    Basically, everything SF4 did correctly on Day 1 in 2008/09, SFV completely dropped the ball on in an embarrassing fashion.

  3. #143
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    NG was far far worse than SF5 and it isn't even close.

    For what it's worth, I like 2I more than 3S.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    NG was far far worse than SF5 and it isn't even close.

    For what it's worth, I like 2I more than 3S.
    Sure, but when you take into account that NG came out in like 1997 and SF5 came out in 2016.....to me V is much worse, but I hope we both agree that they are both trash. That is all that matters, at the end of the day.

    SF4 pulled fighting games out of the gutter. All they had to do was recreate it from a frame data / feel standpoint, add new characters, adjust mechanics (V-Trigger/whatever), make it look current gen, and profit. They completely dropped the ball with past knowledge available.

  5. #145
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    If we're talking about gameplay and not release strategy, SF5's gameplay priorities aren't really a good fit for me, but I'd still rather play SF5 than 3S (which REALLY REALLY isn't for me, as a zoner).

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Also, what Spider-dan just posted regarding what people who enjoy the game play (...lol) was just the surface. The net code is horrible. The "Country" flags never load, so you can hardly ever tell if the person you are about to play is half-way around the world or not. Ranked matches you against people from all over for only fuck knows why.
    The net code is still better than any other AAA title (and light-years better than SF4). I've yet to see a game with country flags that accurately predict what your connection will be like; the ping meter (or: just actual ping) is a much better indicator. You're grading on a pretty steep temporal curve.

    Rage quitting has always been a thing because they have likely coded themselves into a hole, regardless of the changes they have tried making to improve it.
    I have no explanation or excuse for why Capcom is still struggling - across multiple games - to answer a question that Backbone solved for them in 2009.
    Disconnect = loss and move on with life.

    On offline versus, only 1 player can select "Rematch and ready".
    This is also a dumb UI decision that needs to be fixed.

    I'm hoping that the QoL problems you mentioned (other than netplay, which you have as a moving target) are fixed in S2.

  6. #146
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    i dunno why we talkin bout sf5 in a mahvel thread but okay

  7. #147
    Mr. Bananagrabber
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    Because it's reasonable to assume the generally poor choices made for V will extend to MvC.

  8. #148
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    I'd rather confine the SFV gameplay hate to the SFV or EVO thread cause I know there's gonna be plenty of Marvel hate for it not stroking our dicks just right like MvC2 or MvC3.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by shidobu View Post
    i dunno why we talkin bout sf5 in a mahvel thread but okay
    That was my own fault, I was asking since it was briefly mentioned and I asked for some elaboration since I was ignorant on the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
    Because it's reasonable to assume the generally poor choices made for V will extend to MvC.
    This is pretty much what I am expecting if that was the case with SF5 as said by here (thanks for the info luvs) but I am a bit biased since I was a MvC fan since 1 and enjoyed watching just as much as playing cause of the chaotic nature.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
    Because it's reasonable to assume the generally poor choices made for V will extend to MvC.
    I think they will make all-new poor choices.

    Really, the only criteria that I demand this game meet is that there are legit zoners. Don't turn this game into a neutered ArcSys clone like TvC.

  11. #151
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    i still have faith in capcom to make good fighters. they've had plenty of series that took time to mature (sf3, cvs, alpha) and enough great games to balance out the really poor ones. sfv still has time to grow if people don't end up abandoning it completely, and we know next to nothing about mvci to discount it so soon.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I've yet to see a game with country flags that accurately predict what your connection will be like; the ping meter (or: just actual ping) is a much better indicator.
    You can make a pretty good educated guess as to your ping based on country flags assuming best case or average scenario, I'd say with about as much accuracy as a ping meter, especially when you have no idea what a bar means in terms of ping (/cough). 1 bar could be 150ms or it could be 280ms.

    From my house off the top of my head:
    UK: 100ms
    Germany: 130ms
    France: 120ms
    Russia (Moscow): 250ms
    Australia: 220ms
    Japan: 180ms
    LA: 120ms
    Seattle: 130ms
    NYC: 50ms
    Chicago: 40ms
    Toronto: 65ms
    Calgary: 80ms

    So if I saw a UK flag in a lobby, I'd assume I would have about 100ms ping to this person unless proven otherwise. Netcode cant change how long it takes a packet to travel to the destination, it can only mitigate the difference into something less noticeable. Obviously it doesn't work with the US and Canada very well, but the other countries it's a pretty good guage. I would much rather see raw ping numbers but it's obvious devs/publishers would rather you not see that.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaira View Post
    i still have faith in capcom to make good fighters.
    I don't. Until MVC:I, they've outsourced everything fighting game related in the past 10+ years except for the ultra update to SF4, which they fucked up in a bazillion ways.

  14. #154

    Come on Welt.

    As much as I hate sf5, it's nowhere near the worst, if we keeping it one thousand percent.

    I speak strictly from a competitive view, because fuck casuals and arcade mode and all that garbage, and sf5 is nowhere near the broken mess that most older figbting games are.

    Sf5 isn't a bad game by any competitive definition -- it's just really, really fucking boring.

    That is its biggest problem, and kne wthat I foresaw that since day one.

    From a competitive point of view, there really isn't anything broken in sf5 that would take away from the legitimacy of who is fundamentally the better sf player.

    Compared that to the garbage that is v-ism across all the alpha games in which the match was won by whoever could activate their unlockable vism combo first that either did 90% life or was just outright an infinite.

    Cvs2 eventually fell victim to that same fate on top of roll cancel nonsense.

    3s is just outright a garbage fundamental street fighter. It's a great fight game, but easily the worst street fighter ever, by far.

    I've written fkn thesis on this. It's fundamentally the least sf game in the series, so it gets the honor of being the worst, imho.

    Sf5 is boring as fuck, but doesn't have the retarded nonsense on the level of vism combos, roll cancel, urien unlockable set play loop, ridiculously overpowered 50/50 garbage genei jin combos that built back 50% of its own bar on top of having better balance than every one of those games listed.

    Top 5 GOAT

    1. Usf4
    2. ST
    3. Cvs2 pre-rc discovery and a groove sak/bison/blanks
    4. Hyper Fighting
    5. Sf5.

    Personal bias, but if cvs2 ever got a few patches and fixes and buff/nerf adjustment benefit of modern fighters, I seriously think it has potential to be GOAT fighter.

  15. #155
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    CvS2 got really boring with roll cancel, yeah ;_; Suddenly all specials had invulnerability, and obviously many of those had long startup or whatever to compensate for their strengths, and RC removed that. A-ISM combos were a problem, but it wasn't as boring in a pre-RC era, maybe because the game was younger and I tolerated that more. And yeah, a rebalanced CvS2 could be something really awesome.

  16. #156
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    ITT dudes that haven't paid attention to CvS2 in a long time. RC initially was a big problem because of the (mostly) A-Groove shenanigans. These days K is often considered the best groove, with P and A behind that. Even N-groove is making a strong comeback at a-cho. Without RC, A and C grooves would be unplayable as the game evolved. With RC, the game gets the variety that it was actually aiming for with the groove system and massive roster.

  17. #157
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    lol could you imagine a 1000+ man cvs2 bracket? would take a whole week to complete

  18. #158
    YOU BLACK, MIDNIGHT, EVIL MOTHERFUCKERS!!! BLACK MAGIC, DARKNESS!!! YOU RAW, DARKNESS!!! YOU, FUCKING, DELIRIOUS MOTHERFUCKER!
    You were cold as ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    First off, I think all the X-Men/FF license talk for this game is total fanboy BS. I've seen this before with MVC1 (where people insisted that Capcom had "lost the license to Iron Man" and had to use War Machine) and MVC3 (where people insisted that Activision "had the rights to X-Men games" and MVC3 was an impossibility).

    That said, if there is any truth to the X-Men-as-DLC-only rumors, that would seem to indicate that the decision is being made by Marvel, not Capcom. If Marvel decided to make X-Men a separate income stream for this game (again, not that I give much credence to these rumors), what exactly do you expect Capcom to do about it... not have X-Men at all?
    I always believe that people don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to licensing -- there's an obvious difference between licensing IP for games and licensing IP for movies. Games seem to have a much more complicated licensing structure now and not have the restrictions seen in movies. Take Spiderman for example -- his movie likeness owned by Sony (formerly Columbia Pictures) by 2011, while his his video game likeness was in part owned by Activision. This didn't stop him from being added to [Ultimate] Marvel vs Capcom 3 at all in the same year.

    Marvel 2 should have shown people that back then video game licensing to 3rd Party developers worked on a per-game basis, one of which the 3rd party negotiated the use over a full spectrum of characters/likenesses within an IP with Marvel execs. Marvel still retained full rights, and when the contract was up, so went the support (MvC2, MvC3/Ultimate, Origins).

    ---

    However what we also seeing from Marvel right now is that they are taking a much more involved approach with Marvel: Infinite, which will mean a much easier time negotiating IPs to be added, but also a game that will actually have updates and bugfixes, and not the mess that MvC1/2/3/U became due to licensing issues. We'll also likely see less X-Men related characters than the last Marvel games. Not because of licensing/contractual issues, but due to this new Marvel vs Capcom game also doubling as promotional material for all Marvel properties across all media formats (aka: Free promotion for 20th Century Fox).

    It's no secret that Marvel Studios would like their X-Men and Fantastic Four back, and would like nothing more than these contracts to lapse (lol) or have some sort of joint agreement like Sony currently has with Spiderman. To that end, Marvel has simply been pretty cut and dry about how they've been promoting X-Men and the Fantastic Four -- they want both properties as far from public view as possible to win the war against Fox. The Fantastic Four in the comics has been dissolved (no more FF comics) & Marvel has put a halt on any new X-Men creations, while seemingly creating a new storyline that has Inhumans/Terrigen Mists sterilizing/killing what few mutants remain. Promotion of both have been heavily downplayed as well.

    Shift back to this game, and it would make sense why they would make X-Men & FF possible DLC content. DLC content doesn't exactly get the same levels of promotion as the game itself upon initial release. I can see a scenario where they release MvC:I with no characters from either IP, and then very soon after start to trickle in characters from both. This will be supremely idiotic for Marvel to do however, since X-Men basically carry this game's hype. Can definitely see it however.

    If it matters Spider-Dan, I'm fully with you, I just see things differently. Marvel definitely can and will add the characters we love.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanClaudVanDamme View Post
    From a competitive point of view, there really isn't anything broken in sf5 that would take away from the legitimacy of who is fundamentally the better sf player.

    Compared that to the garbage that is v-ism across all the alpha games in which the match was won by whoever could activate their unlockable vism combo first that either did 90% life or was just outright an infinite.

    Cvs2 eventually fell victim to that same fate on top of roll cancel nonsense.

    3s is just outright a garbage fundamental street fighter. It's a great fight game, but easily the worst street fighter ever, by far.

    I've written fkn thesis on this. It's fundamentally the least sf game in the series, so it gets the honor of being the worst, imho.
    I (mostly) agree with your statements and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Out of your 5 games, though, I'd say it's more like:

    Based on quality: HF, ST, [gap], USF4, SF5, [gap], 3S, prehistoric CVS2
    Based on fun: ST, HF, old CVS2, USF4, 3S, SF5

    But whatevs, I agree with your basic premise. CVS2 basically has a cult religion in NorCal and I don't like that game at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viq View Post
    ITT dudes that haven't paid attention to CvS2 in a long time. RC initially was a big problem because of the (mostly) A-Groove shenanigans.
    RC is used to get around the stupid and broken distribution of godlike normals (the Cammy/Blanka/Sagat days). My main problem with CVS2 is that the game has two absolutely mandatory barriers for entry:

    1) Can you reliably RC?
    2) Can you reliably JD/parry multi-hit RCed specials (e.g. Sakura tatsu)?

    If the answer to both of the above is no, move on to another game, because your actual Street Fighter skills are inapplicable. You will get absolutely fucking steamrolled by the first competent player you come across who can consistently RC.

    And as a bonus, CVS2 includes the wonderful you lose half your life for successfully forcing me to jump at you and using the proper antiair, because I had meter and activated my CC to punish you mechanic pioneered by the Alpha series.

  20. #160
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    Already a leaked character roster has popped up, the list seems like a dream come true.


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