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Thread: Jumping Potion (OF Post)     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #121
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    ...but at least there's a better chance to weed them out/bore them to death before they reach cap without a jump potion to let them skip all the stuff they find boring...
    Citation needed.

  2. #122
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    the everyone most suffer as I suffer crowd always seems to casually ignore that the poor player problem is no less prevalent before rapid progression exists

    that, and as I've mentioned umpteen times already, where are the angry mobs protesting FATEs and POTD, which do not teach you how to play your job

  3. #123
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    Ah PotD. It's the only content (outside of pvp) that lets you freely play your job. I actually think PotD is fantastic content, because you can screw around with different party setups, push your limits solo if you want to, and use skills that might not get much use otherwise. In fact, you have to be pretty skillful to get through it solo. If you hit a wall, it gets you thinking about how you can change up how you're playing so you can get past it. No, it doesn't teach most jobs how to "properly" play the other 99% of group content, but I think there's a very strong argument in there for teaching you what your job can really do, if you didn't know already (and if you're actually experimenting instead of doing the same tired combo over and over).

    Quote Originally Posted by solracht View Post
    is your keyboard missing the esc/enter keys or something
    I don't get your meaning. Are you suggesting that everyone should skip cutscenes? I know there are a lot who do because they don't care about the story, but I don't understand those people. The story feature is one of the redeeming aspects of XIV (even if it isn't very good at some points).

    Anyway, jump potions. I agree that a good reason to implement them is for leveling alts, but alts wouldn't even have a reason to exist without the stupidly restrictive weekly tome caps. We're back to the old conundrum of why you can't gear up all your jobs in a timely fashion in a game whose major feature is letting you play every job on one character so you don't need alts. Certain things are just badly designed and if jump potions are the compensation, so be it.

  4. #124
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    My issue with the story of FFXIV is that there's too much complete crap in the gameplay parts. Go deliver this to someone. Then deliver something to the next person. Emote the next person. Kill a mob here.

    Its just awful content. I can completely understand why people want to skip it - and I want to skip it for alts.

    But, unless they commit to improving the quality of the content in the future and include the jump potion for people that buy the latest expansion for free (so new players aren't forced to pay more money on top of the expansion cost or grind through bad content and potentially quit along the way).

    There was some interesting player stats out there - that FFXIV gets a huge amount of new players, but most of them don't play beyond the initial 30 days. Then you look at the lodestone scrapes of characters that just quit before end game. So if this is aimed at potentially solving this, they would give it out for free to players who are new. But if they don't, it will just look like a cash grab to me, and either way they should commit to doing higher quality MSQ content and cut out/move a lot of the shit to side quests.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotsudoku View Post
    the everyone most suffer as I suffer crowd always seems to casually ignore that the poor player problem is no less prevalent before rapid progression exists

    that, and as I've mentioned umpteen times already, where are the angry mobs protesting FATEs and POTD, which do not teach you how to play your job
    Believe me, if you just play XIV you see what FATE spams did to ARR and what PoTD does to HW. No ranting/raving/angry mobs needed, just numerous failed attempts at content because of shit like people not knowing what Provoke does or what any of their job abilities does because PoTD doesn't really Utilize the skills like other content and such. Sure you can use it but PoTD was also designed to be clearable by a 4 DPS setups, so you don't learn much.

    That's why the "learn by leveling" argument is only relevant because you get used to using stuff you gain overtime rather than suddenly being slapped with 28128197879 skills you have no idea wtf is what. I'm not talking about people with common sense or the ability to catch on easily (the minority), talking about the people this game is targeted to (the majority and what makes SE the most money) that seemingly never catches on or learns how to play the game and the ones that create the DF horror stories you typically hear about.

    So jumping ahead making things worse I can actually see happen, does it matter/bother me? Not really, but is it going to happen? Yes. When Blizzard introduced it into WoW it was very very apparent for the initial flow of jumpers but it tapered off. The Chinese/Korean version utilizes this and just looking at some community postings of that there's a lot of people who complained but also heavily praised it because "2.0 - 2.5 is a shitty story full of pointless a to b to a" which I agree with.

    So I definitely see problems initially and it's obviously done more so for a cash grab because they know people will hop all over this, especially for alt purposes, but for new players who want to "catch up to their friends" will also be the biggest spenders on this, because while catching up in XIV is a non-issue, you're locked out of so much shit behind the terrible story you just don't care by time you get through even an iota of it. People give XI shit continually but I'd take that setup over this one any day, any era. I like the "continuation" feel XIV tries to do but they could do it in such a better way.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    I don't get your meaning. Are you suggesting that everyone should skip cutscenes? I know there are a lot who do because they don't care about the story, but I don't understand those people. The story feature is one of the redeeming aspects of XIV (even if it isn't very good at some points).
    The option to get to max level without having any idea about the story at all not only already exists, a lot of people do it, yes. Even people who do care about the story are compelled/pressured to skip it at certain parts (endgame dungeons/raids) due to how badly the first MSQ is set up.

    I just believe that to bring up what you did in regards to the story feels pointless when discussing jump potions. What's redeeming/worth the sub is also subjective, play the game for your own reasons and stop caring about why other people do.

  7. #127
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    It's not so much that I care about why other people play, but the MSQ and the flavor of the world is woven throughout literally everything you do in the game. It's the strength of the FF brand name and it's the reason why the NPCs are actually memorable compared to other MMOs where the NPCs are extremely forgettable. Players missing out on that, willingly or otherwise, is a big loss to them and possibly a loss to what little community there is, because I can only think that people who are invested in the storyline and actually feel like part of the world (instead of just running dungeons ad infinitum for gear that will be outdated in a few months without any real feeling of "why") are more likely to stick around and put in some actual effort to learn and be reliable. In fact, all of the reliable long-term players I know do care about the story quests and feel invested in one way or another, whereas all the people I know who skipped the story have long since quit and moved on to other things. It's just my own observations so it's anecdotal, but I think I've seen more than enough examples to spot a trend.

    So no I don't really care if someone skips the story, but I can predict their sub won't last very long. If you want to look at it from a business perspective, a jump potion might end up not being as helpful as they think if the main strength of the game is robbed from new players. It might be better if they simply revamped the MSQ to not include so much time-wasting bullshit and to give a lot more first-time XP so players can level up their first job much faster.

  8. #128

    After three years, the story of XIV and the game of XIV are still at odds with each other. I didn't realize how bad the Final WoWtasy quest formula was until I played The Secret World. The FFXIV story has so much contrived, superfluous bullshit for the sole purpose of funneling EXP into your first job. A revision would be nice; Squenix could even give players a choice to play an abbreviated, high-XP version of the MSQ or MSQ Classic®. Throwing it all in the bin almost makes me think the "season" setup for expansions was a moneymaking scheme instead of another clumsy Yoshida decision, like long-ass cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon (and in the roulette, no less).

    In any case, the story - or at least the experience of playing through the story - is the only thing at stake. I don't believe the "kno ur job" turbobabies for a second. There are players in EX dungeons today who can't AoE, flank, hold hate, sing a song or let their fairy heal for once in its goddamn life. Grinding through 30 other dungeons didn't help these people excel. As I've always said: players who want to improve their performance, will; those that don't, won't. The cream will rise to the top, the wheat will separate from the chaff and then you can invite the cream of wheat to your endgame corn-shucking linkshell. Just like we did in the old country.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    It's not so much that I care about why other people play, but the MSQ and the flavor of the world is woven throughout literally everything you do in the game. It's the strength of the FF brand name and it's the reason why the NPCs are actually memorable compared to other MMOs where the NPCs are extremely forgettable.
    Unless they were heavily repeating characters I can hardly remember the characters in the story never less the open world. I've played through it a couple times now and most of the names went in one ear and out the other. I'd argue about 95% of the characters you run into within the MSQ and open world are completely forgettable. Add on a lack of voice acting and activity in cut scenes makes many of them entirely forgettable or question what you were talking about a moment later.

  10. #130

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    You've missed the 4th type of player - the one who wants to have a capped out job just to have one, and automatically feels that he's good enough for endgame content.
    This is where the accessibility aspect is key, as your argument basically hinges on, "If you haven't done X endgame content, you shouldn't be anywhere near Y!" And if X is something that feels prohibitive due to manpower requirements, gating, RNG, etc., then you wind up with a scenario where Y content is potentially never seen. Frankly, I've always been perplexed as to why some folks are okay with this, or further that we couldn't have a content Z as a substitute/complement for X. No, it's just play the One True Way(tm) or GTFO.

    Even when it comes to leveling, whether or not it really matters for endgame prep, you're going to have people trying to break it down into the fastest means possible and criticize those who don't follow that path, especially if party play is involved at any point. Being a JRPG nut and typically a completionist if I liked the game, the premise of dragging others through the myriad tedium is obviously absent by the lack of multiplayer that either didn't exist back in the day or doesn't make much sense for it to. For whatever reason, MMOers have convinced themselves that even these tedious aspects need perpetual support from one's peers even though it's readily apparent we hate wasting time or having our time wasted by those not on the same personal level(s) of skill/gear/priorities.

    This isn't to say challenges shouldn't be a thing, but tiering and advocating exclusivity might not be the way to go if trying to cast a wide net, which also shouldn't be presumed to be the worst possible path. Coincidentally, this is why stuff like XIV's rigid party structures are probably a bad thing. Intended difficulty may suggest a certain amount of players, but being able to go above or below could affect challenge as desired by the participants. And if it turns out people don't actually want pull-your-hair-out hard, should it honestly be dev priority? That's the question some endgamers seem either reluctant to answer or don't want to because the the result isn't "their" game, emphasis on possession and control thereof.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hioki View Post
    Unless they were heavily repeating characters I can hardly remember the characters in the story never less the open world. I've played through it a couple times now and most of the names went in one ear and out the other. I'd argue about 95% of the characters you run into within the MSQ and open world are completely forgettable. Add on a lack of voice acting and activity in cut scenes makes many of them entirely forgettable or question what you were talking about a moment later.
    I will never forget Lion Prishe Lilisette Arciela and Naphmau!!! NEVER!! But then again that Story was more memorable lol
    TbH tough the story telling has much improved towards the end of Heavensward as compared to the begining and the horrible sin that was ARR... Just sayin ¬.¬

    Well i wont forget Alphinaud for sure... because he is the cunt i want to strangle because of stupendous shit he proposes to do...
    Can we please please please kill Alphinaud for Stormblood i really cant see his face and hear his voice anymore ¬.¬, I want some fresh Hereos/Heroines thats what allways brought the lore of expansions that much closer to you. But then again thats not possible because in XIV you the player are the warrior of light (fuck that shit)

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    Well i wont forget Alphinaud for sure... because he is the cunt i want to strangle because of stupendous shit he proposes to do...
    Can we please please please kill Alphinaud for Stormblood i really cant see his face and hear his voice anymore ¬.¬
    Now here's something I think we can all agree on.

  13. #133

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    My thoughts on this jump potion..

    -Only a matter of time.
    -Arguably not good for jobs that require a ton of attention/concentration and really only gets better with more play experience(tank and healer). There is already more than enough bad ones as of now. This will just usher in a new generation of bads ten fold.
    -Unless they sit through unending journey(highly unlikely) wont know what the fuck is going on in HW.
    -More $$$
    -This is great for people returning after probably axing their accounts, or experienced players leveling alts.
    -Good for escaping the really annoying quests as well as removing the pain of leveling through to 60(this honestly takes forever. Don't give me that HW exp bonus bullshit. 54-60 is a SLOG).

    And it was asked(sarcastically ) on remembering Steps of Faith was "hard". It still sometimes takes 2-3 tries for groups to clear it.

  14. #134
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    For all practical purposes, fates and potd <131 already allows getting to 60 without a clue on any job, the jumping potion won't change that all that much.
    As others have said, those who want to get good will anyway, and those who don't care will still leech their way through stuff regardless.

  15. #135
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    The jump potions dont really bother me that much but it's not something that's very good for a game only 3 years in.

    Tbh my honest opinion is that they just need to look at the levelling dungeon setup and rebalance it. What sucks about them is the time it takes to complete them. Would help things if they just cut the HP of dungeon mobs down by between 1/3 to 1/2 of their existing HP and rebalance dungeons to be completable in 15min rather than the current design that has people in there on average of half an hour. Just completed the 2.0 MSQ the other day its honestly not that bad to me since I was doing every quest I could see to fill my EXP bar but if they wanted to make it easier it should be just possible to level to 50 on ONLY MSQ and Job quests. Still kinda sucks I gotta other classes for cross class abilities tho that part is due to be overhauled with Stormblood.

    Most of the mid level fates could probably use some HP reduction but the way they made mobs 50+ into HP sponges with heavenward was a bad move imo. People complaining mobs were too easy? Upping their attack power wouldve been fine. Them taking longer to kill isnt its boring and time consuming.

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    Wait, make dungeons and fates easier? What.

    If people didn't suck they wouldn't take so long.

    Then again, I wouldn't be against 15 minute MSQ dungeons that were more difficult than the current faceroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infini View Post
    The jump potions dont really bother me that much but it's not something that's very good for a game only 3 years in.

    Tbh my honest opinion is that they just need to look at the levelling dungeon setup and rebalance it. What sucks about them is the time it takes to complete them. Would help things if they just cut the HP of dungeon mobs down by between 1/3 to 1/2 of their existing HP and rebalance dungeons to be completable in 15min rather than the current design that has people in there on average of half an hour. Just completed the 2.0 MSQ the other day its honestly not that bad to me since I was doing every quest I could see to fill my EXP bar but if they wanted to make it easier it should be just possible to level to 50 on ONLY MSQ and Job quests. Still kinda sucks I gotta other classes for cross class abilities tho that part is due to be overhauled with Stormblood.

    Most of the mid level fates could probably use some HP reduction but the way they made mobs 50+ into HP sponges with heavenward was a bad move imo. People complaining mobs were too easy? Upping their attack power wouldve been fine. Them taking longer to kill isnt its boring and time consuming.

    or they could just triple/quadrupel the exp gain, problem solved. i just dont see your point why its bad to add a jump potion into a 3 year old game, when you just said that the leveling process is shit lol. It kinda contradicts itself ¬.¬

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    or they could just triple/quadrupel the exp gain, problem solved. i just dont see your point why its bad to add a jump potion into a 3 year old game, when you just said that the leveling process is shit lol. It kinda contradicts itself ¬.¬
    I'd imagine the point is the levelling process is shit so instead of charging money to skip it, maybe make the levelling process less shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by haroldsaxon View Post
    I'd imagine the point is the levelling process is shit so instead of charging money to skip it, maybe make the levelling process less shit?
    OR, hear me out, charge money to go to cap and not deal with the leveling process at all and capitalize on lazy players. Instead of spending money on revamping a leveling system some may go through once or twice, they can pay us to catch up for the newest expansion drop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hioki View Post
    OR, hear me out, charge money to go to cap and not deal with the leveling process at all and capitalize on lazy players. Instead of spending money on revamping a leveling system some may go through once or twice, they can pay us to catch up for the newest expansion drop.
    That isn't what they've said - its not a catch up to the newest expansion, its a catch up to level 50.

    I'm not against the existence of a paid jump potion to make money - I have no issue with that. But they are dressing it up as a way to "make it easier for the newer players to catch up with the rest of the community". If they were truly interested in doing that to increase subscriber numbers, they would invest resources into revamping and improving the NPE.

    It isn't actually that hard to do. Make the Hall of the Novice (and future halls + Stone Sea Sky) more accessible (easier to find) for players, make some of the horrific MSQ's into side quests and streamline the story. I don't think it would take as much dev time as shit like Triple Triad/Lords of Vermilion did.

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