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  1. #161
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    Hey, if you had the choice to make a ton of money just by reskinning something and putting it in the cash shop, I bet you would do it too.

    Free money is free money.

    Even if it's immoral and lazy.

    Now that I'm back on the bus for the time being, yeah, the gameplay hasn't gotten any better, the tome grind is just as bad and limiting as before and it's same-old, same-old.
    After not playing for a year, I'm almost caught up in 2 weeks - just need to finish beast quests and do a couple trials and HM dungeons. At least with the new patch coming I have actual content to do for the next few weeks, but the fact that I could catch up on a year's worth of content in a couple of weeks is...kind of sad, to say the least.

    The point that has been brought up lately that the XIV story is...not great, but not forgettable like 99% of other MMO storylines, is definitely accurate. They could do a lot more to make the story better, but like I said before, the NPCs are memorable (except the ones that are thrown in for a day as disposable fodder, looking at you Moenbryda), and the story isn't really horrible, it's just kind of lacking at points.

    Did not expect the feels trip with the mini-kobold, though. Whyyyyyyyyyy

  2. #162

    Honestly ,I feel like good gameplay is punishing, but in a way that you can reflect on it and go " ok, I messed up here" and have the tools to correct it. It has to have moments where you feel you gamed the system, whether it's hammering a weakness, tricking it with pathing , zerging, etc... but where there's a lot of variety in what that trick is.

    Balance is important in a game , but it has to be a dynamic balance. Just like in life, the systems have to adapt and grow. Just... adapt a bit faster than ffxi getting pup right after 5 years. <_<

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psion View Post
    Honestly ,I feel like good gameplay is punishing, but in a way that you can reflect on it and go " ok, I messed up here" and have the tools to correct it. It has to have moments where you feel you gamed the system, whether it's hammering a weakness, tricking it with pathing , zerging, etc... but where there's a lot of variety in what that trick is.

    According to Yoshi P, however, this is too complicated, too complex and too demanding for players, so everything has to be dull.

  4. #164
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    This is what stings. There's no technical reason why they can't make the game better. All the technology, tech art, assets and expertise is at their fingertips. It's that they've decided they just won't.

    I can't get around to why you would go into game dev to make a game where you lock down player options so tightly you could almost do away with the player entirely.

    They could still get their sub money and have an engaging and fun game. They aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

    I will say that I would like free money though... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  5. #165
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    I just don't understand the showers of praise that Yoshida gets.

  6. #166
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    It gets regular content update. The game looks good. And it satisfies enough JP anime tropes.

    Its a mediocre game in a genre that has a plethora of suck to it.

  7. #167
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    To be fair, Yoshi did admit they don't want to do a lot and it's not a matter of they 'can't' - This iteration of XIV isn't terrible as far as basic MMOs goes, but the fact they can do so much more and simply choose not to is why I'll always praise XI and DQX as their better MMOs, because they actually try with those games even in little areas. It doesn't always work out, but they try. When something doesn't work out in XIV it's largely because they "balance" it in a stupid way or make it "optional" content that can easily be bypassed compared to XI where due to obvious technical limitations a lot of content and gameplay had a similar base but they expanded upon it. Like even with "guest developers" it's guaranteed we'll have 2x tome grind, a shitty relic weapon quest (Eureka MAY be good) usual 4-6 bosses every half a year, alliance raid that hands out welfare gear as people call it, said alliance raid allowing tome gear to upgrade, that 1 trial in MSQ the targeted playerbase will always wipe in despite having the easiest mechanics my 7 year old niece can do and has done for me when I was lazy...it's just...too the same despite being a new expansion.

    The one set of content they could have gotten right (Diadem) they messed up because the core gameplay is just...boring. They don't try to expand on any content system because it might "cause stress"...as in players might have to actually learn how to play which seems to be bad, even though he's openly for "getting gud."

    That's why I always say if the playerbase is smart enough, trying to pull another 3.0 for 4.0 won't work again, but there's far too many people who will toss money at this game for nothing basically. If I paid money and not my reserve crysta, I'd certainly be far more pissed off lol. I see the Jump Potions 95% cash grab, 3% alt usage, 1% "Catch up with friends" and 1% "We fucked up on content..but uh..."

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seha View Post
    I just don't understand the showers of praise that Yoshida gets.
    in some people's eyes he'll always be the infallible wizard that brought XIV back from the dead

  9. #169

    people just amazed at how he brought the game back from the dead to something enjoyable, but forgetting that he immediately murdered it in 2.0. ;;

    wtb FFXIV 1.9999998 patch

  10. #170
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    Honestly 2.0 was fine at a start. I enjoyed Coil, some primals were great and the environments were great imo

    But 3.0 is just urgh. Ishgard is really boring, Alex sucks vs coil

    But yeah this is not worth 9.99 per month.


    You pay 9.99 (legacy) for 3 months of 'content' and 3 months of Catchback

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prothescar View Post
    in some people's eyes he'll always be the infallible wizard that brought XIV back from the dead
    He actually gets less credit for that than he deserves. He completed the biggest turnaround of any MMO - maybe any video game? - ever, and you can't really oversell that. He singlehandedly turned XIV from a monumental failure that was a stain on the entire Final Fantasy brand to... just another FF game that some people like, some people don't, but is generally viewed positively.

    Saying that Yoshida was the miracle Jesus that rescued the game is not incompatible with the belief that XIV could be a lot better than it is.

  12. #172

    Well, it's no different than the zeal some latch onto Tanaka with.

    I'll simply say both did good, be it with what they were given or more a matter of timing, but they've also made mistakes. I think the taking of MMO virginity wins a bit more praise for Tanaka than he should really get, while some maybe cling to Yoshi resurrecting 1.0 a bit too soundly. Not to say the latter isn't an accomplishment, but we're past the point where it's no longer Tanaka's failure, but his baby now, and with that all the responsibilities and no excuses of the past to bind him.

    What I do know is what I personally crave from an MMO is something no dev has really done yet. I may find flashes of inspiration here and there, feeling that some refinement could better optimize certain things, but the end result of now is either "not enough" or a tad too much specialization toward certain demographics that too often seem content in cannibalizing their peers to get what they're after with the presumption there is some other MMO out there that'd satisfy the whims of the discontent. Too much theme park. Too much PvP. Too much empty sandbox. Not enough midcore content. Too much emphasis on fluff. Not enough depth. Too much consequence for mistakes/learning because of scripting/rotations. Not enough (fun) balance. Open worlds being pointless. Uncertainty of just where generated revenue really is going. Mix and match issues and you can probably attribute many to the various MMOs out there.

    Maybe one day we'll get something closer, but I'd still warn there's too much emphasis on what an MMO is or was instead of what it could be.

  13. #173
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    You won't get what you want, because emphasis will always go to where the safe money is first, and inspirational new concepts last.

    I give SE and Yoshi all the credit in the world: they took a huge leap on something they viewed as too big to fail, worked hard, and revived it into something viewed very positively as a whole. Its not everyone's cup of tea, and it certainly isn't a complete product in terms of what a fan would want either gameplay or narrative-wise, but it is what we have, and it makes money and it restored SE's public rep in the MMO market.

    That's all SE could ask for.

  14. #174
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    The thing is XIV 1.0 fell down on things that no game should really mess up on.

    Broken mouse, broken menus, loads of lag, dumb market ideas... UI and UX stuff all over the place just broken or poorly implemented.

    It's like Tanaka was entrusted to put together a clothing fashion show and when the stage lights came on and the models started walking down the runway... they were all bollock naked. Not a shred of clothing on anyone.

    SE turned the lights off and get Yoshi to "fix it."

    The stage lights come back on and... every model walking up and down is clothed! Hooray!

    But suddenly everyone realises they're all wearing plain white T-shirts and cheap jeans. Nobody is wearing anything different or interesting.

    I mean... nobody is being flashed by genitals anymore but it still kinda blows.

  15. #175
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    I never played 1.x, but I can appreciate from experience how hard it is to "come back" after such a fuck up in the software industry. That said, I think that standing on your successes for the rest of time is a surefire way of regressing and while YP deserves credit for the revival, it doesn't mean he's immune to criticism.

    I think the MMO industry as a whole is suffering from quality. I'm not saying any other current MMO does it better, but imo that's not an excuse. I just don't think that FFXIV puts out enough content for me to be worth the subscription outside of a few months for raid patches. It would be nice to have more than 4 raid fights every other patch and actually have some savage level content to do in the odd numbered patches.

    A lot of people moan about the changes made to jobs in 3.0, but i've enjoyed the changes made to BLM/SMN. Bard - I can understand the direction, but it was just clunky and took a while to fix. BLM and SMN, while the mechanics were nice - really weren't balanced on release (especially in a tier that really valued raid DPS in the 3rd and 4th fights). BLM needed more spellspeed for the rotation to be not shit and there's still issues with thundercloud usage (although not as bad as 3.0). While they've made some changes (SMN's single target increased, BLM changes to astral fire, thundercloud and what not), they're still undesirable. But they are enjoyable to play - even with the heavy movement in fights.

    I actually really enjoyed Alexander at times. AS3 was fantastic (pre nerf and pre welfare). AS4 - I never got around to clearing this due to group issues, but I think it was tuned too high for a raid patch and Nisi was tough. That said it was Savage, but I can't really say much as I never really experienced progression in it.

    Midas - I enjoyed once the group issues I was having was sorted out. I wish I had re-rolled Monk or MCH though - especially for AS8.

    Creator - I like some of the mechanics requiring you to react. But it does hurt some classes more than others. The DPS checks though were not at the savage level. Nowhere near. The only difference between this content and extreme primals (of old, not Sophia Ex) is that the fights are longer.

    I just wish that they would go into some depth with some difficult content rather than doubling down on watered down faceroll new content each patch. There's a balance needed between easy/medium and difficult content and while its always been weighted towards easy, there's been a trend of stuff being nerfed/content being made easier that makes me sad

  16. #176
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    Yoshida salvaging the game might be great and all but I just don't understand why be content with that? Statusquo Fantasy can only last so long, innovation is needed and I think it's fair to expect it. I can even accept that the start had to be more conservative, but at some point you need to go beyond and do something more and I don't think Yoshida is willing.

    Idk, I just think the idea of Stormblood being the exact same as ARR and HW to be extremely underwhelming(I'm not judging it before I even see it, just a "what if" thought).

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by arus2001 View Post
    Well, it's no different than the zeal some latch onto Tanaka with.

    I'll simply say both did good, be it with what they were given or more a matter of timing, but they've also made mistakes. I think the taking of MMO virginity wins a bit more praise for Tanaka than he should really get
    I think some people want to believe this so badly because they really can't fathom the idea that some people have legit praise for FFXI/its design and the good points of it otherwise. For example people love to say "well XI was your first MMO!" even though for me personally my first MMO was actually back during the MUD days, you know, before they became what MMOs are today. XI was essentially how you should actually handle a clone.

    You can tell it was inspired by EQ, but it wasn't a half-assed EQ clone nor did it clone it to the letter, it took the basis and slapped on FF properties (properly) - whereas supposedly Yoshida had the team play WoW for a year and when it came time for production....didn't even half-ass it, it was just a ...weird clone without a lot of the good features that even made WoW good. Either they played a old school WoW emulator/private server or they simply chose to copy the "older" style WoW.

    In the end though, Wada (biggest reason for 1.0's failure though people place 100% of the blame of the guy who still had to answer to his bosses) learned a lesson and the main suits in SE won't interfere with a lot of directors anymore, which even Tabata mentioned during XV's reworking, so 1.0 ended up doing a lot of good for SE as well. It's no secret SE has a weird way of dong some things but being ran by and invested in by extremely old fashioned people really does show when it comes to some projects. I mean, you don't hear people swearing on Sakaguchi's name and calling him a colossal failure because of Spirit's Within when you know he could and has done so much better..however I bet people still think he "quit" on his own accord.

    I can even accept that the start had to be more conservative, but at some point you need to go beyond and do something more and I don't think Yoshida is willing.
    Yep, Yoshida even said 2.0 they played it safe and will take risks/do more in HW...never happened unless you called making instanced Hunts a risk. Storblood is offering the same promises Heavensward offered, so we'll definitely see if 4.0 is different from 2.0 again. I mean their failsafe is "more inventory" which you know will require having SB registered to your account similar to you can only hit 60 if HW is registered to your account.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinye View Post
    I think some people want to believe this so badly because they really can't fathom the idea that some people have legit praise for FFXI/its design and the good points of it otherwise. For example people love to say "well XI was your first MMO!" even though for me personally my first MMO was actually back during the MUD days, you know, before they became what MMOs are today. XI was essentially how you should actually handle a clone.

    You can tell it was inspired by EQ, but it wasn't a half-assed EQ clone nor did it clone it to the letter, it took the basis and slapped on FF properties (properly) - whereas supposedly Yoshida had the team play WoW for a year and when it came time for production....didn't even half-ass it, it was just a ...weird clone without a lot of the good features that even made WoW good. Either they played a old school WoW emulator/private server or they simply chose to copy the "older" style WoW.

    In the end though, Wada (biggest reason for 1.0's failure though people place 100% of the blame of the game who still had to answer to his bosses) learned a lesson and the main suits in SE won't interfere with a lot of directors anymore, which even Tabata mentioned during XV's reworking, so 1.0 ended up doing a lot of good for SE as well. It's no secret SE has a weird way of dong some things but being ran by and invested in by extremely old fashioned people really does show when it comes to some projects. I mean, you don't hear people swearing on Sakaguchi's name and calling him a colossal failure because of Spirit's Within when you know he could and has done so much better..however I bet people still think he "quit" on his own accord.



    Yep, Yoshida even said 2.0 they played it safe and will take risks/do more in HW...never happened unless you called making instanced Hunts a risk. Storblood is offering the same promises Heavensward offered, so we'll definitely see if 4.0 is different from 2.0 again. I mean their failsafe is "more inventory" which you know will require having SB registered to your account similar to you can only hit 60 if HW is registered to your account.


    That is the problem atm, people are always 'hoping'

    2.0 was ok 'Let's hope 3.0 will be fine we will give them a chance since 2.0 was there to save 1.0 and Yoshida told us it will be better"
    3.0 is shit "But it's ok Yoshida told us 4.0 will be better let's hope"

    Let's see what Yoshida will say in 4.0 to make people wait for 5.0 that will be the same game over and over

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    That is the problem atm, people are always 'hoping'

    2.0 was ok 'Let's hope 3.0 will be fine we will give them a chance since 2.0 was there to save 1.0 and Yoshida told us it will be better"
    3.0 is shit "But it's ok Yoshida told us 4.0 will be better let's hope"

    Let's see what Yoshida will say in 4.0 to make people wait for 5.0 that will be the same game over and over
    Yep, that's why I'm definitely waiting to see especially before my SO tries to get me to drop $200+ again on a collectors edition lol.

    It's why I find jump potions mostly a cash grab than anything tbh.

  20. #180
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    Ugh Wada...fuck that man.