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  1. #41
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    Not a problem. I've been keeping an eye on this since FFXIV is dull as hell unless you do extremes and GW2 hasn't really done anything to wow me.

    I may give it a go to see how it turns out. I just don't want this to be a huge timresink of frustration like XI was where you needed a group for everything.

  2. #42
    Nidhogg
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    I'm still impressed at what they want to accomplish, but I still don't see some of their core principles meshing, mostly in that they want large portions of the server, to work together to create the L5 zones, and then somehow encourage conflict that so that different nodes can be built. How does that work exactly? Who gets too attack a castle and what gets to decide that? Why would so many people want to see their work destroyed, and have no way to influence that decision? What is the incentive for the smaller guilds/solo players to build those places up for the one guild?

    Too much power is controlled by too few people, and it's all in the hands of the PvP guilds. All PvE content is gated by them, and with how hard it will be to get a node up to L5, means only super guilds will get that level and will never lose their standing. You'll all work for them, which isn't a sustainable method, unless it's super easy to take a node down, once it gets to L5. You'd need 20-30 L5 nodes to make things flexible enough to spread the power base out and allow conflict to actually happen, otherwise those 5 super guilds make a pact, and nothing ever changes. 250v250 maps just sound like a giant lagfest.

    The idea of a huge world is always welcome, but no fast travel means people aren't going to spend an hour getting someplace in the hopes that something is happening, or find out another group is already there. Maybe you beat them off in PvP, or not, and now what? Spend an hour getting somewhere, spend an hour doing something, then spend an hour traipsing back? Those outer nodes will see zero activity, since all the benefits will be around the L5 nodes of influence, unless it's in such a way that each node affects some 20ish nodes around it, and they don't have any overlap in said influence. What even happens then?

    Open world PvP; just no. Caravans and random PvP events are fine, but any system worth it's anti-ganking basically makes having said ganking capability pointless, otherwise, it's just abused and not worth having those anti-ganking policies in place.

    There will be so many bugs due to how rare any said content is, as it's all dependent on the L5 nodes. That or it all has to be incredibly bland so that they know it's going to actually work and be beatable by a measurable standard. It could also be a lot of content never seen, after a certain point, if people find out the optimal layout of nodes, which is what severs will naturally migrate too.

    The idea of losing your housing, just rubs me the wrong way, even if you do get a template mailed to you, if a node falls. People hate losing their progress, even if temporary, which goes against this games whole MO. I don't' even know how the template will work since each city's architecture is based on the dominant race, so would your house even look the same?

  3. #43
    Smells like Onions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    Who gets too attack a castle and what gets to decide that?
    I don't know what the process is for initiating a city siege, however, I do know that any guild/person can register as an attacker and citizens can register as a defender.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    Why would so many people want to see their work destroyed, and have no way to influence that decision? What is the incentive for the smaller guilds/solo players to build those places up for the one guild?
    It's worth it because such destruction is supposed to be a grand event. It's challenging, risky, and emotionally rewarding whether you succeed or fail. Small guilds can still have influence. Choose who you want to ally yourself with to give that side more power and support. I think your concern is that cities are going to be built and destroyed repeatedly with no meaningful progress being made, but it's more likely that successfully destroying a metropolis will be very difficult precisely because a mass of players don't want to lose its value. There are also other variables to consider, maybe there's a better location available for convenience or opening up new resource or world boss possibilities. As for incentive in building up those areas, it's not like you're having to throw your own money and resources at it. Simply questing, gathering, buying/selling as you would normally play is what increases a Node's experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    Too much power is controlled by too few people, and it's all in the hands of the PvP guilds. All PvE content is gated by them, and with how hard it will be to get a node up to L5, means only super guilds will get that level and will never lose their standing. You'll all work for them, which isn't a sustainable method, unless it's super easy to take a node down, once it gets to L5. You'd need 20-30 L5 nodes to make things flexible enough to spread the power base out and allow conflict to actually happen, otherwise those 5 super guilds make a pact, and nothing ever changes.
    PvE content is not gated off by PvP. PvP is merely intended to steer its direction, not limit it. There's supposed to be plenty of PvE quests and some instanced dungeons in addition to the open world ones.There are 4 different types of metropolises: Military, Economic, Divine, and Scientific. They all have different systems for choosing the Mayor. Military will inolve a last-man standing event where players play using a Champion, not their own character. A lvl 15 player and a lvl 50 player stand on equal ground here. Economic will be the most "superpower" driven one as the Mayoral position goes to the highest bidder. Divine is related to a person's standing from Religious quest completions in a zone--this is directly PvE related. Scientific is based on a popularity vote. This is not necessarily "superpower" driven either. It's more likely that a notable player from a PvE guild has a more positive reception. Even someone who's guildless but well known in the community could win these elections. There will also be PvP guilds that act as defenders of the people. I feel like your concern is over PvP guilds ruling with an iron fist when the Corruption system effectively counteracts that idea. PvP is not tantamount to griefing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    250v250 maps just sound like a giant lagfest.
    Intrepid employs former Planetside 1 and 2 developers, both games which have had thousands of people in a battle. Steven has said they have full confidence in the architecture supporting 250v250 and will likely be testing have as many as 500v500.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    The idea of a huge world is always welcome, but no fast travel means people aren't going to spend an hour getting someplace in the hopes that something is happening, or find out another group is already there. Maybe you beat them off in PvP, or not, and now what? Spend an hour getting somewhere, spend an hour doing something, then spend an hour traipsing back? Those outer nodes will see zero activity, since all the benefits will be around the L5 nodes of influence, unless it's in such a way that each node affects some 20ish nodes around it, and they don't have any overlap in said influence. What even happens then?
    The respawn mechanic upon death hasn't been revealed yet, but I highly doubt you're going to be making a 1 hour long corpse run. Outer nodes will have plenty of available villages, merchants, and crafting stations. It isn't all or nothing in the cities. You'll even have the option to obtain blueprints to choose a tavern, inn, stable or shop on your own Freehold. You'll be able to construct crafting stations at at your Freehold as well. You're not going to have to traipse around for hours to accomplish anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    Open world PvP; just no. Caravans and random PvP events are fine, but any system worth it's anti-ganking basically makes having said ganking capability pointless, otherwise, it's just abused and not worth having those anti-ganking policies in place.
    The point is agency here. If people want to run around the world, flagged, worried that the strangers they encounter might be an enemy, then they can choose to do so. You're also free to choose not to do so. The Corruption system is good. Ganking someone has extreme negative results, even more-so the greater the level difference. If it's effective at negating griefing/ganking, then it's perfectly reasonable to permit consensual open-world PvP. Also, some people are just freaking a-holes in any game, even without open-world PvP, now you'll have the choice to punch them in the face. There doesn't need to be a zero-sum mentality here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    There will be so many bugs due to how rare any said content is, as it's all dependent on the L5 nodes. That or it all has to be incredibly bland so that they know it's going to actually work and be beatable by a measurable standard. It could also be a lot of content never seen, after a certain point, if people find out the optimal layout of nodes, which is what severs will naturally migrate too.
    Only time will tell as far as the bugs are concerned. I admit, it's very ambitious but the game has been fully funded. They're totally transparent and progress is shown with every monthly update. The only thing that remains here is to wait until release and watch the reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachiko View Post
    The idea of losing your housing, just rubs me the wrong way, even if you do get a template mailed to you, if a node falls. People hate losing their progress, even if temporary, which goes against this games whole MO. I don't' even know how the template will work since each city's architecture is based on the dominant race, so would your house even look the same?
    I feel you on losing your housing. That falls in line with the PvE vs PvP mentality--to each their own kind of thing. I enjoy both and the prospect of losing a portion of resources is negligible to me. It's been officially said that the appearance of your personal Freehold is your decision. You can select to have it displayed as whatever the dominant race is or as your own at your will. There are also other cosmetics that can be obtained and applied.

    Sorry if I didn't write concise enough.

  4. #44
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    Friends all talking about this too but I think it's gonna be a big swing and a miss. Something about it seems off.

    Different rares/bosses depending on region, different city types. There's gonna be a meta there always us. Every server won't be that different. The mayoral thing is a bad choice too. Biggest guild will control that.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyiee View Post
    The mayoral thing is a bad choice too. Biggest guild will control that.
    I've had the same thought. I'm hoping to avoid the servers that big streamer/YouTuber communities choose.

  6. #46
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    There's no way around it even with these four different archetypes. The most money the most popular the best PVP player and the most quest grindy It's always going to be the same people.

  7. #47
    Nidhogg
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    I've played games where there were Mayors and such (TERA), and while there are more options here, there's no doubt the large guilds will control everything. Overwhelm the votes, protect their own for the PvP brawls, make their pick the richest person donating. You name it, they'll do it because the systems don't appear to prevent them from doing that. They do not give up control because there's no reason to. This is why the games philosophy of build and destroy falls apart, because none of it happens without the large guilds willing it to be so, so there's not going to be any incentive for them to let their cities fall. If there is massive incentive for it to fall, then those guilds will just rotate the cities they own and be done with it. Now, that doesn't mean it can't still be a good experience, but still, it's all gated by the L5 cities, which are going to be completely controlled, via the big guilds.

    As for any form of non-consent PVP, I'm just never going to be for it. Sure, you can make there be penalties, but having to always watch your back is stress I just don't want, will never want, and most MMO players are the same. It's going to crop up everywhere that optimal farming spots are located, and will, again, be a form of content controlled by PvP, or the strongest party there, if you want to play DPS mode, which is probably going to be that super guild, cause they'll need the resources. Sure, it's going to lead to some epic battles, no double, but it's not my cup of tea, it's not most peoples cup of tea, and in a market where you want as much market share as possible, just isn't a good business decision, but can still work, if enough people like what you're providing. As for the City battles, I don't think Planetside is a good comparison, as it's literally an entire world as the battlefield; not everyone up against the gate, trying to break in or defend it. If the tech is there, then sure, but the best I ever experience was GW2, and it had it's issues, with less people.

    So, ya, you've kinda got two choices; join one of the five largest, most powerful guilds, and be a cog in it to gain some semblance of place and worth, reaping the rewards that probably come with it, or be a nobody, in a world that's supposed to be determined, by your actions, but is overwhelmed by the massive guilds in the game. I still think having some 20ish L5 cities be available does nothing but help them game as it would:

    • Enable more L5 content across the globe
    • Render those travel time less of a burden, as you don't have to go as far to get to something good
    • More opportunities to farm good spots and help flow more resources into the world, for more people to see their use
    • Enable even more instanced PVP via caravans and such.
    • More power structures, enabling more conflict, and a better chance for the world to evolve.
    • More people can enjoy those L5 city battles, that only happen once very couple of months...really, who thought that could possibly be a good thing?


    So, ya, we'll see.

  8. #48
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    I understand everything you're saying there, 100%. You mentioned more caravans and such. There's also supposed to be instanced battlegrounds and arenas. Those should draw the greatest masses of PvPers. As for L5 city battles, a city can be seiged roughly once per month, not every couple of months, so you could theoretically have several of those occurring every month.

  9. #49

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    In the video you mentioned the material says every 50 days (from last siege if node survives)... seems like once every couple of months.

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