Info from EU Fanfest (Frankfurt 2017)

[Lokus]

It's not though. They announced SAM is sharing gear with MNK. That alone hurts MNK bad regardless of changes. Nobody's going to want to be a SAM competing with MNK for raid gear or vice versa when DRG/NIN still have unrivaled claims, and SAM being the new flavor of the month (and slashing unless they get rid of those buffs) is going to make that more desirable than MNK.

You even said it yourself, unless they rid of those buffs or MNK gets something essential, two things that we've no idea will change. We can't necessarily say it won't change either just because lolSE, especially considering MNK was a princess job all through 2.0 (hi double MNK parties) while casters fell out of favor mid 3.0.

Going off of the current meta setup (DRK/WAR/DRG/NIN/MCH/BRD/AST/SCH), DRG is the only job that doesn't have to worry about competing for gear with NIN behind it since it only has to compete with right side. With 4.0, the worse setup for gear distribution would be Tank/Tank/Heal/Heal/BRD/MCH/MNK/SAM since everyone would have to compete with someone else. But I mean, no one would run that setup right? It's silly to 100% say yes or no. Resists might go away or be shifted around, MNK might get magic resist down or an increase in DPS that makes up for the lack of raid utility or even get actual damage raid utility, or SAM might synergize better with MNK that it does with NIN/DRG and a SAM/MNK combo would be > NIN/DRG.

Honestly though, I would rather SE get rid of maiming/scouting/striking and just combine it into one set then along with the other sets (fending, casting, healing, aiming) allow us to customize it depending on the job we're using. You'd have to compete for gear early on but it would get rid of wasted gear later on. Or streamline gear even more and just make heavy armor, leather, and cloth along with being able to tailor it to the job somehow.

[Alistaire]

You even said it yourself, unless they rid of those buffs or MNK gets something essential, two things that we've no idea will change.

It's not "or", it's "and". Getting rid of slash/pierce/blunt debuff doesn't suddenly give MNK party buffs to compete with DRG/NIN. If that's the only change in favor of MNK people would still prefer DRG+NIN over a combo including MNK. (Of course can't compare how SAM would synergize in that case). As for "gets something essential" I meant an ability that no other job has, like one-ilm punch, where SE has said they never want to make an ability like that useful in raids because then that one job becomes required. So it's very doubtful this would happen.

The gear-sharing issue is more important though. It means any group looking for 1 spot will either "lfm mnk or sam" or "lfm anyone but mnk or sam cause we already have one". And any group with a MNK, and a guy wanting to go SAM will be slowed down in gear progression. That issue we know for sure because people raid for loot, and it would take a group needing MNK in order for it to be sought after.

Come to think of it, didn't NIN also share gear with MNK when it was released?

We can hope there's a mistranslation and it'll be like this; though the wording was different. When NIN was released they said it'd share gear with MNK up to a point before getting its own gear. If that's the case with SAM, great (except now we'd have 8 sets instead of 7), but that's not what's been said.

[Fiye]

Man that would be some shit. 50% of the gear in in 5/8 chests would be for melee DPS.

[Alistaire]

Also noteworthy on this is that SAM takes a big hit on desirability in raid groups right from the start because of this as well.

And considering the likelihood of continuing savage difficulty from creator, groups won't be so hard pressed for any 1 setup in order to win that they take a hit on loot distribution by having SAM and MNK in the same party.



tl;dr With savage difficulty down why rely on getting the same loot twice? FFXIV 4.0: SAM vs MNK

[Silenka]

We don't even know how drastically they're going to change the battle system for 4.0 and already we got armchair Nostradamus declaring the death of jobs. Hmm.

Who knows, maybe SAM or MNK will get something that makes them desirable over all other jobs. You do have to factor in the new abilities MNK will get, too.

I'd say wait and see but that takes all the fun out of arguing about things that have no proof to back them up XD

[Alistaire]

We don't even know how drastically they're going to change the battle system for 4.0 and already we got armchair Nostradamus declaring the death of jobs. Hmm.

Who knows, maybe SAM or MNK will get something that makes them desirable over all other jobs. You do have to factor in the new abilities MNK will get, too.

I'd say wait and see but that takes all the fun out of arguing about things that have no proof to back them up XD

Re-read what I wrote. It doesn't matter how much they're changing the jobs.

What we know:

1. Creator savage difficulty is the way of the future.
2. SAM and MNK compete for gear.

That's it. That's all we need to know to understand they'll be competing against each other in a situation where setups don't really matter, while DRG and NIN still go uncontested for gear. And I didn't say it'd be the death of either job. If anything, it's just the unnecessary bottlenecking of both into 1 spot.

[Spider-Dan]

We can hope there's a mistranslation and it'll be like this; though the wording was different. When NIN was released they said it'd share gear with MNK up to a point before getting its own gear. If that's the case with SAM, great (except now we'd have 8 sets instead of 7), but that's not what's been said.

The word I would use to to describe such a scenario would not be "great."

Man that would be some shit. 50% of the gear in in 5/8 chests would be for melee DPS.

Please look forward to it.

Who knows, maybe SAM or MNK will get something that makes them desirable over all other jobs.

Balance?

Just remember kids, the reason why all the gear and the jobs have to be on rigid, mundane rails is because if we allow the players freedom to customize their playstyle, some jobs might become more popular than others.

[Twilight Sky]

Guess some bad parts from FFXI will really start to creep up in FFXIV.

Edit: Oh interesting title I have. I honestly did not think I was that important or even noticed enough around here to annoy someone that much. But hey don't worry guys, I've already slowed down posting here, and probably will disappear all together, eventually.

[Fiye]

I think someone theorized its from the WWE thread.

[Silenka]

But hey don't worry guys, I've already slowed down posting here, and probably will disappear all together, eventually.

BG is like XIV. Everyone comes back eventually.

some jobs might become more popular than others.

SAM is going to be more popular than others simply by virtue of being SAM.
Too many weebs / XI nostalgia trippers.

[Rionel]

BG is like XIV. Everyone comes back eventually.



SAM is going to be more popular than others simply by virtue of being SAM.
Too many weebs / XI nostalgia trippers.

Well guilty when it comes to being a nostalgia tripper but...

I mean if SAM is popular, what's the big deal about that?

[Sho]

BG is like XIV. Everyone comes back eventually.



SAM is going to be more popular than others simply by virtue of being SAM.
Too many weebs / XI nostalgia trippers.

I for one, will be weebing all over this motherfucker. Samurai is pretty iconic, but if it has as high a skill ceiling as MNK we probably won't see as many.

[Alkar]

NIN was released with a patch and they pointed out that it was gonna share gear with MNK up to a certain point. If they say that SAM shares gear with MNK it will just share all current and future sets. Which is only fair considering melees have had no gear competition at all in this game unlike all mages, ranged and tanks.

[Shenrien]

I think that all gear up to 270 will share with samurai, I have some serious doubts that they're going to lump the two classes on one set of gear. I believe this was just a case of poor choice of wording by the translator on what was said. Unless all monks are going to run around in long draped robes, yukatas, straw hats and shit like that which seems out of monks element, assuming they don't throw domaru's at samurai.

I'm pretty sure people lost their shit when they said the same thing with NIN, thinking the exact same thing and look how that turned out.

[Edelweiss]

We don't even know how drastically they're going to change the battle system for 4.0

I read it as being overwhelmingly focused on easing of DPS roles, to lessen the gap between the floor and ceiling for each DPS Job. This will probably entail very generous timers on shit like Greased Lightning, Blood of the Dragon, Huton, etc. Leylines will probably be revised to make it less punishing (maybe allow it to be redeployed if you have to move or something). Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel will probably be toggle on/off, and only take effect when stationary (you'll be able to move and insta-fire).

The changes for healers and tanks will probably be very mild, if there's no further nerfs to tank DPS for "balance" or whatever the excuse is. I'd fully expect any PLD changes to be extremely convoluted means to either making it even more of a turtle tank (to shift healing burden enough to allow more room for main healer DPS) or towards DRK or WAR (to increase PLD's DPS contribution). I don't expect some of the clunky design of DRK or PLD to really be addressed at all. Their track record on PLD is abysmal, so having any confidence in their ability to get it right is probably foolish.

I genuinely have no idea what they'll wind up doing with healers, but they probably will fail to miss the mark on relative "balance."

TL;DR: this combat revamp is like 90% just DPS role shit.

[Alkar]

Funny that you got that impression when they're talking about tanks and healers almost exclusively when they say anything about the combat revamp.
They only mentioned DPS when talking about the skill gap and how they're planning to simplify rotations and making things easier to track with job exclusive UI (which is a thing for every single job). Tanks and healers are supposed to be getting big changes according to Yoshida, especially SCH and PLD it seems. The only DPS that's supposed to change quite a bit is BRD.

[Damane]

isnt the change of cross clasding system allready a buff to pld dps? I mean unless they exclude all tanks from accessing dps abilitys


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[Alistaire]

isnt the change of cross clasding system allready a buff to pld dps? I mean unless they exclude all tanks from accessing dps abilitys


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I would be very surprised if "role-related secondaries" included dps role secondaries for tanks. But at least that'll buff PLD/DRK dps in relation to WAR a tiny bit.

As for "tanks and healers will get the most change" I don't see it. The entire talk about this change has been because "rotations got hard", and healers don't have a rotation, and tanks rotations are really straightforward. If anything, healers will lose cleric stance and they'll change healer dps to being MND-based and boost them the 10% that cleric gave, and that's about it. Same overall effect as before with less buttons.

[Edelweiss]

Funny that you got that impression when they're talking about tanks and healers almost exclusively when they say anything about the combat revamp.
They only mentioned DPS when talking about the skill gap and how they're planning to simplify rotations and making things easier to track with job exclusive UI (which is a thing for every single job). Tanks and healers are supposed to be getting big changes according to Yoshida, especially SCH and PLD it seems. The only DPS that's supposed to change quite a bit is BRD.

That's precisely what the overwhelming majority of this revamp will be. lol

As for "tanks and healers will get the most change" I don't see it. The entire talk about this change has been because "rotations got hard"

^

I would be very surprised if "role-related secondaries" included dps role secondaries for tanks. But at least that'll buff PLD/DRK dps in relation to WAR a tiny bit.

Farewell Inner Release/Mantra/Second Wind, my old friends.

[Alkar]

Tanks and healers getting the biggest change was mentioned by Yoshida himself, how can you not see it? Wether it's true or not remains to be seen but he said that. Also the big overhaul involves the cross class changes and them removing certain skills that are similar across multiple jobs to implement new ones that will make each one more unique, or so they say. Tanks and healers are the biggest offenders here because some spells and abilities are required to have no matter what and were copy pasted to all of them (cure spell tiers, raises, esunas, sentinel or other similar buffs, etc).
It's not hard to see why these roles would get the biggest changes if all of this turns out to be true given that a good portion of their skillsets would have to be revamped.