Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Physical def/acc post-Feb update?

    I know that all combat stats should have been nerfed for mobs last month, but rather surprised that no one has reported new acc formula so far.. If I'm wrong and someone has already figured it out, can someone please point in the direction of that info? If I'm right, then can some kind soul please tell me a reliable way to test mob eva values? ^^;;

    I'm particularly interested in determining the min/max values for Apex Crab and Apex Bats in Dho Gates, mainly due to their level range being perfect to establish baselines. I'm curious if the lvl+1 formula has changed at all or if it was only a baseline nerf, and whether or not the change was enough to affect the highest end of the level range.

    edit: O_o;; Ok, so found some testing results on "Apex Bat" (lv134-136): FFXIAH forum post. Diff mobs than what I was hoping for but something really jumped out at me.. The lvl+1 values are actually different!

    copy/pasta for those who don't wanna click:
    Apex Bat Lv134: 1257 > 1193 (-64 Evasion) <-- base is what's important to me
    Apex Bat Lv135: 1290 > 1224 (-66 Evasion) <-- lvl+1 = +33 >>Prior lvl+1 value was a STATIC +34 all the way up<<
    Apex Bat Lv136: 1322 > 1254 (-68 Evasion) <-- lvl+1 = +32!

    Now we REALLY need to figure out "Apex Crab" and "Apex Bats"... I'm really surprised that there might've actually been adjustments made to the lvl+1 formula on the level of moving away from a strictly linear progression.

  2. #2
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    21,783
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    What do you mean by formula? Thought we just had a bunch of evasion values for various mobs.

    Also those olds values listed are they after the agi nerf? yeah reading the posts those old values are after agi nerf what you remember as 34 was probably before that

  3. #3
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    That post listed the current values first (which is what I copy/pasted,) and then pre-AGI nerf values from last year for shiggles to laugh at how much mob eva has been nerfed in the last year or so. ^^;;

    Prior to the this update, mobs received a static eva+34 for each level over ours. (EX: player ilvl119 vs clvl130 mob would be either 1163 or 1210 depending on mob family/job. Clvl125 would be exactly 170eva less, and 135 would be exactly 135 more.) This formula worked til Feb 2017 as a general rule. There were a few specific NMs that varied from this, like Sarama having lower eva than expected, but non-NMs never varied. I never tried testing w/ varying ilvl, so I'm not 100% sure what all possible baselines were, but the "mob lvl+1 = eva+34" worked all the way up to clvl139 from ilvl119 at least. There only ever appeared to be 2x different evasion baselines (low/high, diff accounted for by "Evasion Bonus" trait.)

    The key points I guess are that mob evasion was nerfed by ~100 (Apex Bat was 1346/1380/1414 up thru January,) and that either the lvl+1 formula was already sliding scale for 135+ or they changed it with the update to be so. I don't know how to test to pinpoint values though, so I never detected a single digit variance if it was there. ^^;;

    This has got me intrigued though, so if anyone can point me towards the process for exact value testing, it would be much appreciated.

  4. #4
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    21,783
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    eva testing is fairly simple on non itg mobs. use /check and vary your own accuracy to nail down the break points.

    High Evasion
    If a monster checks as high evasion, you have a lower than 60% chance to hit it. Mathematically, your accuracy < Enemy evasion - 30
    Low Evasion
    If a monster checks as low evasion, you have at least an 80% chance to hit it. If the monster is higher level than you, you may have less than 80% Hit Rate Mathematically, your accuracy ≥ Enemy Evasion + 10

  5. #5
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,091
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Since when did monsters have only two baselines? Monsters have differing jobs (and I'm pretty sure AGI ranks, too), just like players. For example, in Inner Ra'kaznar, THF fomors are more evasive than NINs, who are more evasive than WARs, who are more evasive than BLMs. Level 126 Rabbits in Woh had (before both EVA nerfs) 1068 evasion, which fits neither of the baselines noted in your post.

  6. #6
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    eva testing is fairly simple on non itg mobs. use /check and vary your own accuracy to nail down the break points.
    Right, I understand the concepts involved, but I don't know what I should do with the breakpoint data. ^^;; What is the formula/process to figure out acc caps based on /check reportings? Do I need to pinpoint all three /check values? What am I supposed to do with them after finding them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Since when did monsters have only two baselines? Monsters have differing jobs (and I'm pretty sure AGI ranks, too), just like players. For example, in Inner Ra'kaznar, THF fomors are more evasive than NINs, who are more evasive than WARs, who are more evasive than BLMs. Level 126 Rabbits in Woh had (before both EVA nerfs) 1068 evasion, which fits neither of the baselines noted in your post.
    Using the "high" model (Apex Bats, Dho Gates), a 126 high eva/AGI mob should have had 1074 eva. I use Apex Bats/Crabs as my baselines because of their level range (130 is really easy to extrapolate from mentally) and I don't think there are any mob families that would have higher default evasion than bats or lower default evasion than crabs. I'd say that a +"6" variance is small enough to still say that the lvl+1 values are static, since a value difference that low is likely due to the mob job difference, EB trait, family, etc. There are a lot of variables that affect evasion, but since I don't know the exact process on getting exact numbers, I've never attempted to fine tune the "mob lvl+1 = eva+34" formula. The point has always been to figure out minimum acc that I needed to cap hit rate, so I don't see a problem personally in a diff that means that my expected cap is actually acc+6 over what is actually needed. While there have always been some differences due to mob family/job, using the formula has never failed me.

    How big are the differences between the Fomors you mentioned? Are you sure they were all values from identical level targets? If you have exact old numbers, can you share please? :D I wouldn't mind checking new values if I have old ones to compare to in order to figure out exactly how big a change this nerf is (once I figure out what the actual process is to determine actual values.)

  7. #7
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    21,783
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Right, I understand the concepts involved, but I don't know what I should do with the breakpoint data. ^^;; What is the formula/process to figure out acc caps based on /check reportings? Do I need to pinpoint all three /check values? What am I supposed to do with them after finding them?
    Did you read the quote part? It gives the exact math you need. You adjust your acc until you find the point where it changes from nothing to high or low. Take your acc put it into the formula above

    As far as the job discussion mobs have always had strong differences based on job the same way players do. Pld mobs have ridiculous def. blm mobs have ridiculous int especially since ilvl scaling. Evasive jobs such as nin or thf have always had higher evasion. You can even go back to old lvl 75 era stuff where stats of xp mobs were well mapped out notably Mamools. Given that and how SE has previously stated adjusting player tables can effect mobs they most likely take their base stats on tables similar to our job/race ones

  8. #8
    Smells like Onions
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    5
    BG Level
    0

    Ever since the August 2016 patch, AGI doesn't affect monster evasion after a certain amount. That leaves buffs (which we're ignoring), traits (which is mostly just THF mobs), and skill. I'm gonna guess around 75% of all enemies are WAR or some other job with a C in Evasion skill since almost everything has the same evasion.

    Anyway, I got all the evasion values for Apex everythings. Defense hasn't changed since any of these mobs were added, so everything outside of Inner Ra'Kaznar is finished. Since VIT still affects defense and most attack buffs are percentage gains, it's way more tedious to get those numbers.

  9. #9
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Did you read the quote part?
    .... I have no idea why, but that quote didn't show up earlier ._.;;
    So, basically, I just have to pinpoint either low/high breakpoint and add 40%/20% of that value to get the cap value? That doesn't sound too difficult at least. ^^;; Hope I have enough varying value gear to work this properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by bradinthebox View Post
    Ever since the August 2016 patch, AGI doesn't affect monster evasion after a certain amount. That leaves buffs (which we're ignoring), traits (which is mostly just THF mobs), and skill. I'm gonna guess around 75% of all enemies are WAR or some other job with a C in Evasion skill since almost everything has the same evasion.
    Are you sure this is how it works now? I remember them saying that mobs gained less eva from AGI, but never heard that it was a cutoff and always assumed it was a lowered ratio. Most things being a C-rating is most likely what I've seen. Basically, that's the "low eva" tier as far as I'm concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by bradinthebox View Post
    Anyway, I got all the evasion values for Apex everythings. Defense hasn't changed since any of these mobs were added, so everything outside of Inner Ra'Kaznar is finished. Since VIT still affects defense and most attack buffs are percentage gains, it's way more tedious to get those numbers.
    :O This is post Feb update data? Would you mind sharing your numbers? Have you updated the bgwiki pages yet?

  10. #10
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    21,783
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    .... I have no idea why, but that quote didn't show up earlier ._.;;
    So, basically, I just have to pinpoint either low/high breakpoint and add 40%/20% of that value to get the cap value? That doesn't sound too difficult at least. ^^;; Hope I have enough varying value gear to work this properly.
    Well since you are trying to find evasion you'd probably want to add/subtract evasion. But yeah that's the gist of it. Once you find the break point the game is basically telling you exactly how much more/less evasion the mob has then your acc.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag

Similar Threads

  1. Distract/Frazzle Values Post Feb 2017 Update + QD Testing
    By Spicyryan in forum FFXI: Mathy Parts Redux
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2017-02-17, 14:12