Destiny 2 [PS4/XBONE/PC] (Sept. 6, 2017)

[Kaslo]

Do you mean the Y2 light level change?

Kind of, I think the move to more light (going up to 300 from levels) was fine.

It was the guaranteed progression they added a few weeks into Year 2, where raid drops would ALWAYS be above your level for the last 10 light to cap.

[Kaslo]

The problem is by Rise of Iron they had a lot of the mechanics reasonably un-fucked and then threw it all away to start with a fresh disaster in Destiny 2. Nobody asked for weapon loadout changes, they wanted weapon balancing. People didn't like random rolls but the system they replaced it with completely destroyed the replayability of the game because duplicates served zero purpose (an issue they acknowledged before the game even launched and have *still* not found an answer for. So why did they do it in the first place?). A lot of the actual criticism was of Bungie itself, not Destiny, and they utterly failed to address any of it (infrequent updates, infrequent and infuriatingly vague communication, Microtransactions, game balancing). Only recently have they begun to show signs of improvement in any of these areas, and only because they faced such severe backlash from every corner of their fanbase. It should never have come to this in the first place.

I would argue the loadout changes were for 2 reasons, only one of which was balancing shotties/snipers. The other issue was the year 1 issue of people only using Raid weapons for primary because of elements.

[Serra]

Yeah, I was going to say.. the loadout changes are largely (if not 100%) due to the community's constant complaints about special weapons in PvP.

[Obsidian]

The weapon system changes were because of balancing complaints, but weapon system changes were not what was being asked for, is my point. It wasn't a "careful what you wish for" like with all the ability nerfing between games. No one ever wanted two Primaries. No one ever wanted Shotguns or Snipers in the Heavy slot.

[Karbuncle]

Plus moving secondaries to the Heavy category has just made the heavy category a hard to balance cluster fuck of partially or entirely unusable weapons (At launch, still partially applies now). I don't think Blizzard maliciously became an evil genie and gave the community "What they wanted" in the most fucked up way possible, I think they just horrifically or short sightedly fucked it up. Either from time constraints, deadlines, or "Fuck it we'll patch it". I could go into detail on why I hated D2 but to simplify it, its a loot grinder game to me, as I imagine it is to a lot of people, and their loot was far too bad and far too common. There was no chase and what there was to chase wasn't worth chasing, at all.

So for me, the biggest positive to all these changes is making Exotics feel like Exotics, but I don't think its getting me to buy any expansions. If my current package gives me the DLC free i"ll probably play it because I want Destiny to be good, but It wont get any more of my money, and D3 isn't on my radar anymore.

Also side note: By and far their worst enemy, and this goes back to Exotics, is their PVP balancing. They >need< to find a way to balance PVP and PVE separately because its holding the game back in terms of creative and powerful feeling weapons and armor to chase. If you need to go the "Guild Wars 2" approach and just have specific/special Armor/Weapons for PVP do it. But it needs to be balanced separately.

[Kaslo]

I'll likely be on this afternoon if anyone wants to Banana.

[Serra]

The only people who don't see the problem with balancing PvP and PvE separately are people who don't play both parts of the game. There's nothing wrong with only playing one or the other, but don't act like this wasn't a game created with both pieces being part of a whole.

There have been two threads that made it to the front of the Destiny subreddit today that highlight this problem, the changes to blink from D1 and the delay on radar reappearing after you ADS. In both threads, people posted that these changes should revert back to how they were in D1, at least for PvE, but can you imagine how bad it would be to go from PvE to PvP if that were the case? Having two different ability cool-downs for the same ability would be horrendous.

[Serra]

I'll likely be on this afternoon if anyone wants to Banana.

Home now Kas, and I've got 1:30 to 2 hrs if you still are looking to banana -- just let me know.

[Karbuncle]

The only people who don't see the problem with balancing PvP and PvE separately are people who don't play both parts of the game.

Doubt it. But I have no hyperbole defense.

There's nothing wrong with only playing one or the other, but don't act like this wasn't a game created with both pieces being part of a whole.

So Agree to disagree glad you like it. I was talking more on the "minor changes" such as Ammo Size/reserve, clip size, gun range, gun damage, ADS time. I know these arent really minor when they're all added up... Another complaint.

There have been two threads that made it to the front of the Destiny subreddit today that highlight this problem, the changes to blink from D1 and the delay on radar reappearing after you ADS. In both threads, people posted that these changes should revert back to how they were in D1, at least for PvE, but can you imagine how bad it would be to go from PvE to PvP if that were the case? Having two different ability cool-downs for the same ability would be horrendous.

I'm not against further discussion, But I believe the end of the discussion would be a matter of opinions butting heads. I feel PVE is nerfed and bland because too much exciting and fun gear/loot would ruin PVP balance. Hopefully the changes to the Exotics we've previewed prove me wrong and the PVP doesn't complain until the fun is nerfed out of it again.

Plus frankly you've probably given it more thought than me and I can respect that.

[Kaslo]

Also sorry Serra, yardwork too longer than expected :/

[Serra]

Well.. I feel bad for binging so hard to finish that ornament now..

Having so much fun in Iron Banner this week. Next week is Mayhem, and the following week is the final Iron Banner of Season 2. The week after that? Warmind, Season 3, Private Matches and Crucible ranks.

https://twitter.com/level_1_warrior/...356036096?s=21

[Wulfgang]

Just logged on for the first time in months for some 6v6 banana. I am going to be so rusty/terrible, but down to team up.

[Mythe_Seraph]

Someone mentioned it up too but the weapon changes really made this game less fun for me. Having snipers and shot ties placed into the heavy category was so brutal. Not even a variety of different types of snipers that could maybe be sub classed and some only as heavy or anything was so heavy handed and terrible. Made my feel way less weak in encounters and one dimensional.

Also the fact that they haven’t been able to replicate the replay ability, enjoyment, versatility etc etc etc of Vault of Glass with a single raid yet has been so crap. These encounters just become more and more convoluted and frustrating. I feel like this has all been discussed to death.

[Wulfgang]

Agree with Mythe, but I had a lot of fun in Iron Banner yesterday since they increased the player count from the 4v4 originally.

[Gustave]

I was discussing FPS games with my brother this weekend.

In hindsight Destiny went downhill after they started catering to the casual side of PVE and PVP.

PvP was screwed over by complaints of players not able to reach the light house. I logged into to twitch a couple weekends ago and couldn't find one trials streamer in the top recommendations. During D1s peak I would watch on Saturday mornings while reading and having coffee. It was always a top game even during the no content months.

At the end of D1 most players admitted the best meta was during pulse/HC/shotty meta. Before the CD and Matador was reintroduced.

It was basically 1-2 weapons that caused the entire system to be broken and we ended up with this.

The writing was on the wall. No 60fps plus devs admitting they were moving away from vertical play and movement speed because it caused a skill gap and was less enjoyable for lower skilled players.

[Kaslo]

[Serra]

Keep forgetting there's a stream tomorrow.. ..and that Warmind is two weeks away.

[6souls]

Keep forgetting there's a stream tomorrow.. ..and that Warmind is two weeks away.

[6souls]

Frozen Hive, underwhelming. Hive attack makes sense that Rasputin would be calling for help again, though.

[Serra]

I guess Escalation Protocol is the new game-mode? Sounds like a horde mode, but a lot of the vague comments people have been making have sounded like it's something more original than just a horde mode.

Edit: Watching it again, Suros Regime is back, and Escalation is almost definitely a horde mode -- at :18, it says level 6, so hopefully it's like ODST's firefight.

That's either a new relic as the final shot, or a new exotic sword(?).