HBO's "Confederate"; aka Why your black friends were mad at HBO on Twitter this week

**Anoat** · 2017-07-23 12:38

Confederate chronicles events leading to the "Third American Civil War". It takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate, and the families of people in their thrall.

From the minds of our GoT bros, their next project once GoT has wrapped. The backlash was immediate and HBO and D&D are already on the defensive about a show that is solely and completely in the concept phase at the moment.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/hbo-c...interview.html

Tell me more, though, about exactly how you came to do this idea. Did you do a whole bunch of research? Maybe go out one day and smoke peyote like Jim Morrison?

David Benioff: In a dorky way, I guess it goes back to — we’re both history nerds. I remember reading a history of the Civil War, I think it might have been the Shelby Foote one. And there’s a famous story, which I’m going to mash up, because my memory’s not what it used to be — but there’s a famous story of when Robert E. Lee was invading the North. Not the Gettysburg invasion, but an earlier one. And the set of orders got misplaced and were found by a Northern soldier. And it ended up ruining Lee’s invasion. A lot of people think if the orders hadn’t been lost, things might have been different: The Confederates might’ve sacked Washington, D.C., it’s possible the South could’ve won the war. So that notion of, what would the world have looked like if Lee had sacked D.C., if the South had won — that just always fascinated me. And history as a genre has always been interesting to me. That was really the initial thing. I wish I had a more specific trigger moment for you, but I don’t.

D.B. Weiss: Yeah, on top of what David said about history and how we’ve both been heavily invested in it since kids — it goes without saying slavery is the worst thing that ever happened in American history. It’s our original sin as a nation. And history doesn’t disappear. That sin is still with us in many ways. Confederate, in all of our minds, will be an alternative-history show. It’s a science-fiction show. One of the strengths of science fiction is that it can show us how this history is still with us in a way no strictly realistic drama ever could, whether it were a historical drama or a contemporary drama. It’s an ugly and a painful history, but we all think this is a reason to talk about it, not a reason to run from it. And this feels like a potentially valuable way to talk about it.

Did you anticipate any of the reaction that came yesterday?

DB: Oh, yeah. We all knew it was coming in one form or another. I remember the very first time we talked about this, one of the first things that came up was …

DW: Malcolm said, what was it?

Malcolm Spellman: “You’re dealing with weapons-grade material here.”

**Xno Kappa** · 2017-07-23 12:54

It starts off slow, but picks up steam after the fifth slave beating.

**Jaybar** · 2017-07-23 13:10

But "Man in High Castle" was fine.

**Zetanio** · 2017-07-23 13:28

Yeah, alt history sci-fi/fantasy is awesome.

I don't see what the problem is here.

Oh wait, I'm white.

**Deftscythe** · 2017-07-23 13:37

I can't be bothered to try to sift through twitter and google only turned up an article from some random site called "themarysue." Can somebody gimme the gist of people's complaints with this?

**Zetanio** · 2017-07-23 13:43

Pretty much black people don't like slavery.

**Deftscythe** · 2017-07-23 13:49

Still?

**Zetanio** · 2017-07-23 13:53

Yep.

**Deftscythe** · 2017-07-23 13:55

Damn. Really holding a grudge on that one.

**Xno Kappa** · 2017-07-23 13:59

Shit gonna be lit after the Red Auction episode.

**Hirronimus** · 2017-07-24 16:50

Abraham Lincoln, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons?

**Melena** · 2017-07-24 17:32

Originally Posted by Hirronimus

Abraham Lincoln, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons?

**Dimmauk** · 2017-07-24 19:11

Originally Posted by Zetanio

Yeah, alt history sci-fi/fantasy is awesome.

I don't see what the problem is here.

Oh wait, I'm white.

It's going to be crazy to see what that America looks like. I can't imagine an America with racism and minority slaves everywhere.

**Ksandra** · 2017-07-24 20:53

I can totally get why people would be upset on the surface. Many are assuming this will help glorify the confederates and embolden racists to be even more racist. It doesn't help that it is the white people that are the main characters.

But many are forgetting this is HBO. and I have a strong feeling this is going to be hugely anti-confederate and they are going to be portrayed as a bunch of shitheads.

If it is what people are predicting, then I hope the show dies. If it is what I think it's going to be, I'll be laughing at the racist southerners all day long.

**Melena** · 2017-07-24 21:38

Wonder if the people complaining enjoyed the movie white mans burden

**EternityEnd** · 2017-07-24 22:17

Originally Posted by Ksandra

I can totally get why people would be upset on the surface. Many are assuming this will help glorify the confederates and embolden racists to be even more racist. It doesn't help that it is the white people that are the main characters.

But many are forgetting this is HBO. and I have a strong feeling this is going to be hugely anti-confederate and they are going to be portrayed as a bunch of shitheads.

If it is what people are predicting, then I hope the show dies. If it is what I think it's going to be, I'll be laughing at the racist southerners all day long.

It's HBO. But it's also D&D. Whatever your opinion of them, they've inserted a lot of homophobia, sexism, and sexual violence into GoT that either wasn't in or exceeds the books, which is reason to be skeptical of if they have the grace and sensitivity to handle this subject. They're also probably going to strive hard for the "grey morality" ideal which, when applied to a slave-owning society . . . well, lol.

There's enormous room for error in an era where racial tensions are soaring and we have white supremacists in the WH. The fact that the first idea these two leapt to post-GoT was "What if we could still enslave black people today?" (titled "Confederate") is hilarious.

This is all ignoring that the two main points of convergence this alternate history relies on -- the South winning, or drawing, the Civil War, and slavery still existing in the modern era -- are both historically implausible. As far as I can tell, historians agree that slavery would have been abolished in the years following the Civil War, regardless of if the South won independence. It was untenable and already abolished elsewhere in the West.

**Anoat** · 2017-07-24 22:36

Originally Posted by EternityEnd

This is all ignoring that the two main points of convergence this alternate history relies on -- the South winning, or drawing, the Civil War, and slavery still existing in the modern era -- are both historically implausible. As far as I can tell, historians agree that slavery would have been abolished in the years following the Civil War, regardless of if the South won independence. It was untenable and already abolished elsewhere in the West.

An independent southern Confederacy would have been doomed by our friend Mr. Boll Weevil by the turn of the century, coupled without having any kind of industrial revolution like the Union would be undergoing, the Confederacy's economy would collapse and they'd be suing for reunification by the 1920s at the latest.

If you want to keep going down that rabbit hole, it would probably delay if not outright exclude the United States participation in World War I, and the chain of events that would set off are much more grim.

**Zetanio** · 2017-07-24 22:38

Stop being gay about this. Can we just see some slaves and stuff? Jeez.

**Athas** · 2017-07-24 22:41

Originally Posted by Ksandra

I can totally get why people would be upset on the surface. Many are assuming this will help glorify the confederates and embolden racists to be even more racist. It doesn't help that it is the white people that are the main characters.

But many are forgetting this is HBO. and I have a strong feeling this is going to be hugely anti-confederate and they are going to be portrayed as a bunch of shitheads.

If it is what people are predicting, then I hope the show dies. If it is what I think it's going to be, I'll be laughing at the racist southerners all day long.

American History X message is "racism is bad" and Wolf of Wall Street does a good job of making Belfort look like a villain. That doesn't stop stupid people from seeing the opposite and I don't know that D&D could sidestep this pitfall - heck with all the sex and violence is doubtless gonna get thrown in they could just jumping right into it.

**Xno Kappa** · 2017-07-24 22:42

How about a show where slaves rose up and whooped some plantation owners thus taking over the south? Why not that alternative history?

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