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  1. #101
    Yoshi P
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    Pup is not strong outside of automaton tanking (which has plenty of issues like no ability to generate AoE hate, can't deal with doom, etc), and I wouldn't call it versatile considering it isn't good at anything else. Automaton DD is terrible outside of overdrive, and doesn't even work properly if you have other non-pet DDs (will sit on TP forever if other players are spamming WS when equipped with store tp or sc bonus parts, which are otherwise sadly the best ones). The rdm and whm frames are significantly worse than trusts of those jobs, the blm has deplorable macc, outdated spells, and awful AI.

    I don't think pup is in any danger of being OP from h2h fixes (no DD jas or traits besides martial arts, still left off of alot of melee gears), unless you also made some serious improvements to automatons.

  2. #102
    i should really shut up
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    Thought flame holders and acruballista were a thing?

  3. #103
    i should really shut up
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    On a side note, forums failed the community this month for initial V1 ambuscade information. Just because this is the first time I seriously couldn't find much about the fight outside of maybe two posters out of any on Ah.com. Even then it wasn't completely info or sufficient.

    Gained all I needed to know and easily win for V1 D+ from a LS mate this evening after struggling, and added everything to the wiki of course.

    So, what do we think about making an Ambuscade information thread the same time as the update thread? There was a time when everyone got everything in-depth from BG after an update. Should we wear that crown again?

  4. #104
    New Spam Forum
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    I don't know why people are so afraid of making PUP overpowered, even if it were completely broken no one is going to suddenly PUP all the things. PUP could use a WS damage boost as well, after all its primary role is still being a damage dealer, the pet tank thing was just a happy coincidence and who knows how long that niche will last (doesn't work well in every scenario anyway)
    If they update all h2h weaponskills to be competitive to make MNK viable, PUP would benefit (and it should, since h2h weaponskills are garbage and excluding PUP from it wouldn't be fair since they have A+ h2h and are still primarily a DD job regardless of how people feel about lolpup) but it wouldn't be overpowered or make everyone suddenly bandwagon the job, it's not BST. Both jobs need the boost

  5. #105
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post
    I don't know why people are so afraid of making PUP overpowered, even if it were completely broken no one is going to suddenly PUP all the things. PUP could use a WS damage boost as well, after all its primary role is still being a damage dealer, the pet tank thing was just a happy coincidence and who knows how long that niche will last (doesn't work well in every scenario anyway)
    If they update all h2h weaponskills to be competitive to make MNK viable, PUP would benefit (and it should, since h2h weaponskills are garbage and excluding PUP from it wouldn't be fair since they have A+ h2h and are still primarily a DD job regardless of how people feel about lolpup) but it wouldn't be overpowered or make everyone suddenly bandwagon the job, it's not BST. Both jobs need the boost
    People want the easiest way out. So much like smn all the things it would be pup all the things.

  6. #106
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
    Sepukku is my Hero
    Therrien's Cum Dumpster

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post
    even if it were completely broken no one is going to suddenly PUP all the things.
    What game have you been playing for the past decade?

  7. #107
    Sea Torques
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    Something interesting from a JP player on OF: What happens if a mob absorbs the new Boost?

    Do they get to one-shot someone or will they just stand there til it wears off (before one-shotting someone)? XD

  8. #108
    Yoshi P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Thought flame holders and acruballista were a thing?
    The problem is:

    if you don't use store tp parts, it gains TP alot slower (obviously) and is not very efficient with it's WS usage. It tends to wait a while after getting TP before using it, and has no regard for other players WS/skillchains, which is shitty in an era where people are bouncing huge damage level 3 SCs.

    In the case of acruballista it also only has level 1 sc properties, and you need to use specific maneuvers to force it. If you want a wind maneuver to cap haste, you need 2x fire maneuver to get acruballista, which will be lost on every WS due to flameholder, and it takes 20 seconds minimum to get them both back up. If it WSes in the meantime (1 wind, or 1 wind + 1 fire), you get armor shatterer, and still lose your fire maneuver if you had one. Basically, outside of overdrive, you can't do the flameholder + acruballista strat and cap magic haste at the same time.

    if you do use store tp (and/or skillchain bonus) parts, the automaton will constantly attempt to do skillchains whenever it can, but always at the far end of the SC window (to maximize MB time I guess). This works out fine if it's just you+automaton, but if you have other DD frequently WSing, it just won't WS at all.

  9. #109
    Chram
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    According to BG wiki, Arcuballista has 7 fTP at 1000 TP, while two fire maneuvers with Flame Holder gives +0.5 fTP. Is Flame Holder really that necessary for it?

  10. #110
    Yoshi P
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    Flame holder was changed to give WSD+ or something at some point. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but with optic fiber 1+2 and 2 fire maneuvers, it seems to about double the damage of single hit WS.

  11. #111
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Something interesting from a JP player on OF: What happens if a mob absorbs the new Boost?

    Do they get to one-shot someone or will they just stand there til it wears off (before one-shotting someone)? XD
    Would be funny and easy to test in Omen against the miniboss that copies buffs

  12. #112
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Thought flame holders and acruballista were a thing?
    Flameholders do very little for Arcu. Does some pretty OP stuff with bone crusher though

    Quote Originally Posted by fantasticdan View Post
    Flame holder was changed to give WSD+ or something at some point. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but with optic fiber 1+2 and 2 fire maneuvers, it seems to about double the damage of single hit WS.
    If that ever did happen it's completely not true anymore. SE released some numbers way back when and used the same terminology for it as the dmg bonuses for ws ie ftp. Testing I've done shows it adds up to it and is proportional to the dmg numbers they gave us for both. Example my 3k tp arcuballista against level 0 mobs with no stat gear was doing 15912 while 3 fire flamholder was doing 18972

    That said the testing I showed had all ranged ws with and without flameholders doing about 2/3s the dmgs from multipliers suggesting that either the ftps they gave us were exactly the same percentage off to make some weird numbers or they something super weird to ranged ws like gave them some kind of weird dmg lowering multiplier that doesn't apply to regular ranged attacks or melee ws (similar stat single hit melee ws do a good 50% more dmg at capped pdif)

  13. #113
    Yoshi P
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    Did you test with other WS? I haven't messed around with flame holder since the automaton updates a while ago, but I remember some WS getting a huge boost out of it, and others it not really doing anything (i think magic mortar and armor shatterer).

  14. #114
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasticdan View Post
    Did you test with other WS? I haven't messed around with flame holder since the automaton updates a while ago, but I remember some WS getting a huge boost out of it, and others it not really doing anything (i think magic mortar and armor shatterer).
    I tested it will all ranged ws. And it increases dmg by the proportion that you would expect it to be for ftp based on the hard numbers SE gave us for both that listed both the same. You are probably remembering a multihit ws for increases. What you are probably remember for "changing it" is SE telling us it wasn't tp bonus like it said but was a "Upon rechecking, I have found that the effect of this attachment is not “TP Bonus”, but rather a “ Damage varies with TP” effect. Since SE doesn't use the ftp term them saying +dmg afterwards meant ftp even though it sounded like wsd if you didn't read the above

  15. #115
    Relic Shield
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    So im kinda confused if haste and stuff effected the boost duration. if it did would it be wise upon activation to wear in slots (that didnt enhance boost specifically) gear with haste, martial arts and whatever also?

  16. #116
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpy View Post
    So im kinda confused if haste and stuff effected the boost duration. if it did would it be wise upon activation to wear in slots (that didnt enhance boost specifically) gear with haste, martial arts and whatever also?
    Gear haste does not affect it.

    Magic haste, and Martial Arts+ from gear, do affect it. I suspect that anything that directly affects delay (like Dual Wield+ from gear or Blitzer's Roll) would also affect it.

  17. #117
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Gear haste does not affect it.

    Magic haste, and Martial Arts+ from gear, do affect it. I suspect that anything that directly affects delay (like Dual Wield+ from gear or Blitzer's Roll) would also affect it.
    Gear haste most certainly does affect it.

  18. #118
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Gear haste most certainly does affect it.
    You are right! I just retested w/ proper verification and recording of my results (and made absolutely sure that the only drain on my 'net was FFXI instead of Windows Update downloading in the background. Just got hit w/ several hours of downtime when my laptops decided to self-install the Creator's Update... ) and determined the same thing. Not sure why I didn't see that before, so I will blame my crappy connection. >_>;;

    So I actually went and blew 100k to test Boost duration w/ Blitzer's Roll. lol Also tried shuffling around gear/subjobs and this is what I got so far:

    99MNK/49BLM Boost durations:
    naked, no weapon = 17~17.2 sec
    naked, Calved Claws (90 delay) = 21~21.2 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, Calved Claws (90 delay) = 17-17.2 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, Calved Claws (90 delay), 2x Mache Earring (MA+10 each) = 16.1-16.3sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, Calved Claws (90 delay), 2x Mache Earring (MA+10 each), Geo-Haste+Haste = 10-10.2sec

    99MNK/49NIN Boost durations:
    5/5 Herculean armor set, 2x Excalipoor II (233 delay each) = 16.7-16.9 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, 2x Excalipoor II (233 delay each), Suppanomimi = 16.1-16.3 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, 2x Excalipoor II (233 delay each), Suppanomimi, Blitzer's Roll (10, 10.2%) = 13.9-14.1 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, 2x Excalipoor II (233 delay each), Suppanomimi, Blitzer's Roll (10, 10.2%), Haste II = 9.8-10sec

    99MNK/49SAM Boost durations:
    5/5 Herculean armor set, Caver's Shovel(402 delay), Blitzer's Roll (10, 10.2%) = 16-16.2 sec
    5/5 Herculean armor set, Caver's Shovel(402 delay), Blitzer's Roll (10, 10.2%), Hasso = 14.8-15 sec

    99PUP/49MNK Boost durations:
    naked, no weapon = 19-19.2 sec
    naked, Calved Claws (90 delay) = 23.1-23.3 sec
    5/5 Tali'ah armor set, Calved Claws (90 delay) = 18.1-18.3 sec
    5/5 Tali'ah armor set, Calved Claws (90 delay), 2x Mache Earring (MA+10 each) = 18.1-18.3 sec

    99WAR/49MNK Boost durations:
    naked, Ferocity (504 delay) = 28.1-28.3
    mixed armor (gear haste +29%), Ferocity (504 delay) = 25-25.2 sec
    mixed armor (gear haste +29%), Ferocity (504 delay), Blitzer's Roll (11, 12.1%) = 19.0-19.2 sec

    Variance is due to lag somewhere in the pipeline, estimated/eyeballed from the point that the buff shows up on my bar > when duration timer kicks in > when the initial number ticks down (using the client buff timer display) combined w/ chatlog timestamps. None of the Herc has any MA/DW augments, and my MNK has no JP. COR rolls provided by my naked, no JP dboxed 99COR.

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