Item Search
     
BG-Wiki Search
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Weaponskill additional effects and dSTATs?

    Has there ever been any testing suggesting one way or the other on whether they might have them?

  2. #2
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Not that I'm aware of. Not sure anything has really been strictly speaking tested given the difficulty so most of what we have for what effects is assumption/things obvious enough to eyeball

  3. #3
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Added effects from WS are affected by magic accuracy, so if there are dSTATs involved, I imagine they'd only be INT/MND affecting magic accuracy. I can't think of any WS off the top of my head that has varying potency added effects, only varying duration/accuracy.

  4. #4
    i should really shut up
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,737
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Added effects from WS are affected by magic accuracy, so if there are dSTATs involved, I imagine they'd only be INT/MND affecting magic accuracy. I can't think of any WS off the top of my head that has varying potency added effects, only varying duration/accuracy.
    Something like mordant rime does.

  5. #5
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Something like mordant rime does.
    According to the bgwiki page, TP affects "chance" of landing (macc|resist state|duration) and the effect itself has a fixed potency. Are there any WS added effects where the potency varies w/ TP?

  6. #6
    New Spam Forum
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    189
    BG Level
    3

    I was always told that the INT mods of scythe weaponskills (Cata and Entropy) were directly related to how much they influenced the drained hp/mp.

    As in; Don't bother adding INT+ to Cata, it only increases drain (potency? macc? cap?) not damage. (they couldve been wrong)

    Apoc wasn't very common when I got mine and Int gear was even less common. haven't used it since when Meeble Burrows was first introduced.

  7. #7
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Cata and Entropy drain (well, more accurately, restore) exactly as much HP/MP as they do damage. They both have INT mods (not INT dSTAT), which directly increases their damage.

  8. #8
    i should really shut up
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,737
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    According to the bgwiki page, TP affects "chance" of landing (macc|resist state|duration) and the effect itself has a fixed potency. Are there any WS added effects where the potency varies w/ TP?
    Whoops. My mistake, sorry.

    Otherwise it is something like Sanguine Blade which isn't an added effect.

  9. #9
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Testing of these would be insane. Just stick with the stat mods as it's the most likely culprit

  10. #10
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Just did a very brief test that seems to imply that at least for Shockwave, dSTATs don't apply. I used a mob to test on that Shockwave with a specific amount of MACC in gear had a low, but not quite floored, stick rate, then kept all of that MACC gear constant in both tests.

    Level 125 Devouring Mosquito
    164 INT, 174 MND
    4/20 landed

    Then, I added 138 dINT and 102 dMND, and fought the same level of Devouring Mosquito.
    3/20 landed

    Not conclusive, but if Shockwave had a dINT or dMND MACC modifier, changing them by 138 and 102 should cause it to have big enough increase that should be visible even at this low count (unless the dSTAT was absolutely tiny, meaning it's not worth gearing for anyway).

  11. #11
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    There's a 3rd possibility of you being so far away from the mobs base stats for your changes to do anything

  12. #12
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Devouring Mosquitoes are not particularly difficult mobs, so if a range of 164 to 302 and 174 to 276 doesn't count as close enough at some point in their range, it's not going to be worth gearing for anyway, because you'll never reach it on mobs of note without SV etudes or something.

  13. #13
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Your target may have been a pretty poor one for this particular test if it exist for a couple of reasons. That said for gearing it's probably not worth it unless it's a dmg stat mod unless you really know the mobs stat... but could probably more easily grab some macc gear

    1. Shockwave is sleep back before I believe repose existed this means it's almost 100% dark based and if there is a dstat it's int.

    2. Mosquitos are extremely dark resistant so you might be quite a bit of macc below the floor.

    3. Mosquitos are thought to be drk possibly blm. Base stats tend to be based primarily on job and level. While haven't tested them specifically CDF did some int testing on metalcruncher worms (blms) awhile back with level 125 ones having 301 int. Assuming that's the cast going from 164 to 302 could be 31 macc increase. Which is a bit but if you are floored might not mean that much. But similar level war type mobs have more like 220ish int so that int increase could be 66 macc. Problem is the full effective dint range of 140 dint only gives a grand total of 60 macc and well ilvl stat scaling has really blown differences in stats based on job out of proportion so what gearing that might give you full or near full range on a lot of mob types might literally do nothing on blm mobs and nms can have their stats wherever they want

  14. #14
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Your target may have been a pretty poor one for this particular test if it exist for a couple of reasons. That said for gearing it's probably not worth it unless it's a dmg stat mod

    1. Shockwave is sleep back before I believe repose existed this means it's almost 100% dark based and if there is a dstat it's int.

    2. Mosquitos are extremely dark resistant so you might be quite a bit of macc below the floor.

    3. Mosquitos are thought to be drk possibly blm. Base stats tend to be based primarily on job and level. While haven't tested them specifically CDF did some int testing on metalcruncher worms (blms) awhile back with level 125 ones having 301 int. Assuming that's the cast going from 164 to 302 could be 31 macc increase. Which is a bit but if you are floored might not mean that much. But similar level war type mobs have more like 220ish int so that int increase could be 66 macc. Problem is the full effective dint range of 140 dint only gives a grand total of 60 macc and well ilvl stat scaling has really blown differences in stats based on job out of proportion so what gearing that might give you full or near full range on a lot of mob types might literally do nothing on blm mobs.
    1: This was one of the good things about the test, not a bad one.

    2: Floored MACC on Shockwave means you have an absolutely miniscule land rate on sleep (like <1%), and I adjusted MACC gear until I was sure that I didn't. The weaponskill adjustment was quite hefty, and even with Mosquitoes being moderately resistant to dark, I had to remove my ilvl weapon in order to not have a nigh 100% land rate.

    3: I'm pretty sure Mosquitoes have Defense/Evasion values more in line with WAR or DRK, not BLM (though I could be wrong), but regardless, I believe that Bees almost certainly have a lower racial INT stat than worms anyway.

  15. #15
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    1: This was one of the good things about the test, not a bad one.

    2: Floored MACC on Shockwave means you have an absolutely miniscule land rate on sleep (like <1%), and I adjusted MACC gear until I was sure that I didn't. The weaponskill adjustment was quite hefty, and even with Mosquitoes being moderately resistant to dark, I had to remove my ilvl weapon in order to not have a nigh 100% land rate.

    3: I'm pretty sure Mosquitoes have Defense/Evasion values more in line with WAR or DRK, not BLM (though I could be wrong), but regardless, I believe that Bees almost certainly have a lower racial INT stat than worms anyway.
    1. Ah yeah if you were going for almost floored then sure.

    2. Actually it doesn't. While we don't have specific testing for ws additional effects spell min full land rate is 5%. Sleeps by and large have 1 partial resist state meaning even with floor macc you should have 9.75% chance to land at least from just macc/meva. Resist traits muddle that water a bit but those tend to give different messages. The sample size is small enough that we can't really tell much about the rate at all. Could be near zero could be 1/3.

    3. It's hard to say. Most mobs have sub jobs that are the same as main some have different ones and take stats of both. I went by the jug which is definitely not war (fencer bonuses make it super easy to see) but has drk? but has nothing but nukes for moves. drk is tied for 3rd on int though as far as jobs go but I didn't have any drk numbers. Bees aren't mosquitos and outside of the weird caster ones are definitely war. Can check when I get home though

  16. #16
    Relic Horn
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,096
    BG Level
    7
    FFXI Server
    Sylph

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    1. Ah yeah if you were going for almost floored then sure.

    2. Actually it doesn't. While we don't have specific testing for ws additional effects spell min full land rate is 5%. Sleeps by and large have 1 partial resist state meaning even with floor macc you should have 9.75% chance to land at least from just macc/meva. Resist traits muddle that water a bit but those tend to give different messages. The sample size is small enough that we can't really tell much about the rate at all. Could be near zero could be 1/3.

    3. It's hard to say. Most mobs have sub jobs that are the same as main some have different ones and take stats of both. I went by the jug which is definitely not war (fencer bonuses make it super easy to see) but has drk? but has nothing but nukes for moves. drk is tied for 3rd on int though as far as jobs go but I didn't have any drk numbers. Bees aren't mosquitos and outside of the weird caster ones are definitely war. Can check when I get home though
    2: Actually, it does. Take it from me, someone who uses Shockwave very often, Shockwave's floor is WAAAAAY lower than 5% chance, as is possibly every other weaponskill added effect. Weaponskill added effect enfeebles do not work the same as magic enfeebles; when finding a good non-floored MACC rate for Shockwave on Mosquitoes, I was doing 10 WSs, then adding ~25 MACC if none landed, and repeating. I did 50 WSs before getting a good set going, and not a single one landed sleep.

    I'm also skeptical as to whether 5% is actually the minimum land rate for player spells anyway. I've casted tens of thousands of enfeebles on resistant mobs without focus/languor like Maju, AA Suzaku, HELMs, and on enfeebles they are resistant (but not immune) to (not resist traits), the stick rate is extremely close to 0% without immunobreaks.

    3: I'm almost postiive that subspecies like bees vs mosquites are exactly the same in terms of base racial attributes.

  17. #17
    Relic Weapons
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    387
    BG Level
    4

    Mosquitoes have a MP job as one of their jobs and aren't actually a subspecies of bees. They copied the skeleton and edited the model for budget reasons, but they don't count as bees for Apururu RoE and presumably Magian Trials.

  18. #18
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    2: Actually, it does. Take it from me, someone who uses Shockwave very often, Shockwave's floor is WAAAAAY lower than 5% chance, as is possibly every other weaponskill added effect. Weaponskill added effect enfeebles do not work the same as magic enfeebles, and I'm also skeptical as to whether 5% is actually the minimum land rate for player spells anyway. I've casted tens of thousands of enfeebles on resistant mobs without focus/languor like Maju, AA Suzaku, HELMs, and on enfeebles they are resistant (but not immune) to (not resist traits), the stick rate is extremely close to 0% without immunobreaks.

    3: I'm almost postiive that subspecies like bees vs mosquites are exactly the same in terms of base racial attributes.
    2. I'm hesitant to take it without some sort of hard testing with a real sample size.

    As far as the rest that's because that testing was done specifically on resist from macc/meva. What you are referring to is an odd cause that I like to call soft immunity that got created back during the immunobreak update. Back when SE added added the whole immunobreak and the completely immune messages they broke apart immunity into 2 classes. They created the completely immune generally for nms (in fact I think it actually only is on nms) they didn't want being cheesed in a certain way.

    The other was one that didn't give that message and wasn't based on traits but would reduce the odds of landing that particular debuff significantly down to as low as 0 without immunobreak or now with stymie. This seemed primarily for the purpose of letting you debuff mobs without letting you just keep them that way with hour long fights since you are limited to 10 immunobreaks per mob and the first one from what little testing I did only gave around 30% land rate assuming definitely capped macc. This mostly applied to nms but they also rolled over previous normal mob immunities into soft immunities. Example skeletons were originally just immune. I've literally set my rdm in what was okish macc set a few years ago against the skeletons at the beginning of gusgen to non stop sleep for a few hours. They aren't completely immune and with stymie I landed every sleep (though was always a half resist) and with double immunobreak I had near or actual 100% land rate (that said small sample size on both). Without either stymie or immunobreak 0/260 with as many as I could having ES. With single immunobreak was 4/29

    tl;dr nms play by their own rules.

    3: Certain attributes to an extent do. Base stats at least the huge amount of scaling that has happened post ilvl are more largely effected by job(s). You can check various mobs at similar levels and the smn and blm will be pretty close with drk and the other 3rd placers being a bit lower but all again pretty close and then the rest all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay under (like pretty sure the wars I tested were actually more like level 130 and were still in low 200s int). You can even take the same mob type. Taking skeletons in ra'kaznar or however you spell it the blms have significantly higher ints than the drk ones (though exact amounts are hard because numbers were off for weird reason) And of course some things like elements, sdts and resistances will just vary as they choose. For example the dark bee which is an actual bee and not a new model that's similar is blm/war.

  19. #19
    Old Merits
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,181
    BG Level
    6
    FFXI Server
    Asura
    WoW Realm
    Cho'gall

    Shockwave was part of the recent buff in June to ws added effect macc. Link here. Not sure your old understanding would still apply.

  20. #20
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    22,338
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Shockwave was part of the recent buff in June to ws added effect macc. Link here. Not sure your old understanding would still apply.
    If you are referring to me my understanding is on how debuffs and resist states themselves work not ws acc

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
  • Insert NSFW Tag
  • Insert Spoiler Tag