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  1. #21
    Melee Summoner
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    What you trying to say is they have a static HQ rate independent of the success rate and only the NQ rate is dependent on the success rate. This would be really silly imo and super hard to test! Bigly amounts of samples needed. It also would of taken more code/work on SE's part.

  2. #22
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    Nah, it'd take exactly the same amount of coding, just done differently.

  3. #23
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Using wrong numbers to simplify, what I'm saying is:
    IF normal NQ/HQ/break rate @ 95% success rate for 100x synths was 90/5/5, then @99% it would be 94/5/1. Percentages would change, but actual number of HQ per 100 would not change.
    I saw what you were saying and that was one of my examples. The only difference was going from the perspective of using successes or synths as the common denominator to properly compare how the 2 different ways could be. While it does change the numbers. It's very very slight.

    But to use your numbers for simplicity in the situation where hqs would change (ie some of those breaks would've been hqs) that 90/5/5 would go to 89.789/5.211/1

    The point is it's going to be basically impossible to differentiate between those 2 cases though I suppose it might be easier looking at the nq percentages maybe while assuming break rates....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darvamos View Post
    What you trying to say is they have a static HQ rate independent of the success rate and only the NQ rate is dependent on the success rate. This would be really silly imo and super hard to test! Bigly amounts of samples needed. It also would of taken more code/work on SE's part.
    Code:
    Normal:   |HQ|-----NQ-----|----Break|  
    Success+: |HQ|-------NQ-------|Break|
    Doesn't seem complicated at all to code it this way. The easiest way to verify would likely be to do a large enough Rusk/HQ+ sample w/o success+ and see if overall break rate drops at all. If not, then it likely does follow my idea.

  5. #25
    Ridill
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    It's pretty much just a matter of order for coding. One way could be something like determine HQ or NQ if NQ determine success or failure or you could determine success or failure then if success determine HQ or NQ. And of course with all of these if HQ determine which level. Regardless I think I'll just start giving both percentages though they shouldn't differ much for hqs

    Speaking of FP did we already know they specifically just adjusted the + rate? Either way good to know makes me feel a little sad about doing these base rate tests but then again some of other numbers were questionably sourced before so not too bad

    Edit: All right another 2k done.
    Breaks- 114
    NQ- 1838
    HQ- 48 (in case anyone was like wtf compared to the last one. Had a really really hot run of 20 in 500)

    That brings totals up to 4k synths
    Breaks- 208 ~ 5.2%
    NQ- 3715
    HQ- 77 ~1.925% of total 2.073% of successes. Assuming base rate actually is 1/64 that makes the 2nd case seem pretty damn unlikely with this sample size

    Side note does anyone know how the process of getting different rings is now? Like before iirc you just dropped yours and talked to person and gave them a bunch of your balyd and bam. But with +1s do I do the same thing? And then will I have to trade another 100 HPB to +1 that one? Cause fuck that's like 2 mil gil each change out.

  6. #26
    Groinlonger
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    I made a post on the OF asking for the stats on Tiny Rusk. I'm guessing that it's +4% to HQ rate but I don't really want to test that. Also in regards to HQ rate being absolute or relative to success, I think desynthesis would be a good way to shed light on that.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    I made a post on the OF asking for the stats on Tiny Rusk. I'm guessing that it's +4% to HQ rate but I don't really want to test that. Also in regards to HQ rate being absolute or relative to success, I think desynthesis would be a good way to shed light on that.
    Why? Desynthesys doesn't necessarily have to follow the same rules/priority/mechanisms of Crafting. It's been proved already in the past how "special" desynth is compared to synth, no?
    How would understanding how something works in Desynth prove something for Synth?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Side note does anyone know how the process of getting different rings is now? Like before iirc you just dropped yours and talked to person and gave them a bunch of your balyd and bam. But with +1s do I do the same thing? And then will I have to trade another 100 HPB to +1 that one? Cause fuck that's like 2 mil gil each change out.
    You have to rebuild the +1 from scratch, so pay bayld to buy a new NQ, then pay HPB to +1 it.

  9. #29

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    I made a post on the OF asking for the stats on Tiny Rusk. I'm guessing that it's +4% to HQ rate but I don't really want to test that.
    https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/11...=1#post6745201

    Quote Originally Posted by Kincard View Post
    Tiny Rusk/Macaroon (2016/7/27) The item “Tiny Macaroon” and “Tiny Rusk” have the same potency as “Coffee Macaroon” and “Chocolate Rusk”, respectively.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    I made a post on the OF asking for the stats on Tiny Rusk. I'm guessing that it's +4% to HQ rate but I don't really want to test that. Also in regards to HQ rate being absolute or relative to success, I think desynthesis would be a good way to shed light on that.
    Always assumed they were the same as the midgrade food due to the same icons, and it turns out that was a correct assumption. Feels good.

  11. #31
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Why? Desynthesys doesn't necessarily have to follow the same rules/priority/mechanisms of Crafting. It's been proved already in the past how "special" desynth is compared to synth, no?
    How would understanding how something works in Desynth prove something for Synth?
    Been awhile since I actually did do a bunch but the hq rates always seemed higher on desynths... if you actually succeeded lol

  12. #32
    Groinlonger
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    Thanks for the clarification.

    Also, was thinking about moghancements. Maybe the elemental moghancements are best for some T0 crafting now? There's also the normal craft moghancements.

  13. #33
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Also, was thinking about moghancements. Maybe the elemental moghancements are best for some T0 crafting now? There's also the normal craft moghancements.
    If it doesn't take you down to T -1 then maybe though I think you mean the normal moglification. However it kind of requires a bunch of assumptions. Like that the reduced material loss stated in the KI description elemental and moglifications isn't in mega moglification too but just didn't make it into the text. Given the fact the only difference between moghancement and moglification: craft is the material loss rate it would make sense that if it really was just skill they'd have done mega moghancement. Also assumes no cap on material loss rate prevention... which I don't know if there is any testing on rate other than very approximate base rate. And then it's a matter of is it really worth it to have a slightly higher chance of getting more materials back on 1% of synths?

    That said it might be worth looking into for estrucheons where it's literal HQ or break

  14. #34
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Also, was thinking about moghancements. Maybe the elemental moghancements are best for some T0 crafting now? There's also the normal craft moghancements.
    If it doesn't take you down to T -1 then maybe though I think you mean the normal moglification. However it kind of requires a bunch of assumptions. Like that the reduced material loss stated in the KI description elemental and moglifications isn't in mega moglification too but just didn't make it into the text. Given the fact the only difference between moghancement and moglification: craft is the material loss rate it would make sense that if it really was just skill they'd have done mega moghancement. Also assumes no cap on material loss rate prevention... which I don't know if there is any testing on rate other than very approximate base rate. And then it's a matter of is it really worth it to have a slightly higher chance of getting more materials back on 1% of synths?

    That said it might be worth looking into for estrucheons where it's literal HQ or break

  15. #35

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Also assumes no cap on material loss rate prevention
    In this update's update notes they said they added a cap to material loss prevention rate.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by errantfish View Post
    In this update's update notes they said they added a cap to material loss prevention rate.
    Do we know the cap on that?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Do we know the cap on that?
    Minimum cap for "Material loss rate" is 20%. It's in the Sep. Update notes.

  18. #38
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Minimum cap for "Material loss rate" is 20%. It's in the Sep. Update notes.
    It's also really weirdly worded. Like I assume they mean the stat is that high but it almost can be taken that the odds of losing materials can go that high but then you should mean that low etc. Also right under it is says doesn't apply to everything lol. So we'd have to know what doesn't apply and how much various things give that aren't flat out stated now

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Minimum cap for "Material loss rate" is 20%. It's in the Sep. Update notes.
    Yeah sorry, tired. Got it.

    I'll update the wiki later.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    It's also really weirdly worded. Like I assume they mean the stat is that high but it almost can be taken that the odds of losing materials can go that high but then you should mean that low etc. Also right under it is says doesn't apply to everything lol. So we'd have to know what doesn't apply and how much various things give that aren't flat out stated now
    JP update notes agree that it is "maximum suppression of 80%" (aka minimum of 20%). The "does not apply to all items" thing is probably referring to not all synthesized items will be able to reach that cap. May also be referring to desynthesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTrans
    An upper limit was set for the effect value that can be boosted by the property "synthetic material loss rate".
    Based on the disappearance rate set for each item, it is adjusted so that the disappearance rate of the material can be suppressed to "20%" by the effect of equipment / meal / other strengthening.
    ※ It does not apply to some items.
    The way this is worded makes me think that mat loss rates are fixed values that are assigned to each item/recipe and that some items/recipes may simply be too high to push all the way up to cap.

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