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  1. #181
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    Mijin.
    "zomg barfira for Mijin" - Everyone, circa 2005

  2. #182
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    Someone should test those attacks that are supposedly unaffected by all forms of DT by using them on something that takes very little damage from everything, like Excavation Duty Brittle Rocks or Campaign Fortifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    "zomg barfira for Mijin" - Everyone, circa 2005
    That quote was talking about player Mijin; mob Mijin definitely works differently if play Mijin supposedly doesn't get affected by DT.

  3. #183
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    No sure about Mijin since slight guess based on the context but they definitely talk about how the mob version is magic but player version isn't magic or breath or an element as commonly thought but no mention about possible element for mob version. There is also some bit of stuff at the bottom about how mob versions of a lot of this stuff isn't gone over much because testing is difficult and not much done and players are less able to do things about it defensively for a bit of these. Actually should be super easy to test nowadays with Liement

    But QDs probably the most tested thing in ffxi given how it was basically the only way to kill WKR early on at low colonization rates. Might be server dependent but there were fights where literally 100% of the dmg was from QD rotations where parties of cors would all qd then one would random deal go again RD go again then rotate wild cards lol. God I don't miss 5 hour WKRs. It's why QD is pretty much the go to for mdb or testing specific elements. Pretty sure there has been some concentratic pulse testing but I don't visit the geo threads too often.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    That was normal. Need to be able to eat some hits

    Like I've said feel free to do a real test. But it's going to take alot more than omg big dmg compared to others in range with completely different stats to prove theories that have never been seen in any way shape or fashion. If you don't account for other magic damage variables you can't ignore them and start inventing new things to explain it

    Also 10% doesn't guarantee full resist only high likelihood and the -50% cut so it's quite possible others would only be taking 3200
    Says the guy who swore up and down bats aren't weak to wind and acuex aren't weak to fire. Magic isn't some mysterious thing, the damage tends to be extremely consistent and after a thousand or so of Leviathan spamming the damage is still extremely consistent, it's not some mystical force that can't be accounted for because you say so lol it's really not that complicated, resist states can be clearly seen if you pay attention at all.



    Ifrit, who has the exact same stats as Ramuh and is extremely weak to water, takes more or less the same (unresisted) damage. Only time Ramuh takes less is when he gets a clear 1/2 resist for ~800-900
    (Grand Fall seems to be TP variable which explains the couple hundred damage differences)

    Either player avatars don't have 10% to both strong/same elements or certain monsters or abilities are programmed to ignore them, at least for VD merit battlefields which have strange mechanics to begin with since they're level 99 monsters with inflated stats

  5. #185
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    There are people that still think Mijin is fire based?

    Spoiler: show

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post
    Says the guy who swore up and down bats aren't weak to wind and acuex aren't weak to fire. Magic isn't some mysterious thing, the damage tends to be extremely consistent and after a thousand or so of Leviathan spamming the damage is still extremely consistent, it's not some mystical force that can't be accounted for because you say so lol it's really not that complicated, resist states can be clearly seen if you pay attention at all.



    Ifrit, who has the exact same stats as Ramuh and is extremely weak to water, takes more or less the same (unresisted) damage. Only time Ramuh takes less is when he gets a clear 1/2 resist for ~800-900
    (Grand Fall seems to be TP variable which explains the couple hundred damage differences)

    Either player avatars don't have 10% to both strong/same elements or certain monsters or abilities are programmed to ignore them, at least for VD merit battlefields which have strange mechanics to begin with since they're level 99 monsters with inflated stats
    I said there was no proof of the first. Because you have zero idea on how to actually test shit and instead stick to tons of well eyeballing this and that. Eyeballing is not testing. If you can't back your shit up with exact numbers and math you aint proofed shit about any of this games math. If you go back thru various threads you'll actually find I've tested acuex having increased dmgs to certain elements.

    I'm going to spell this out for you really simple because you aren't getting it. I know goddamn well things can be accounted for. That's why I'm telling you until you account for all the known variables at the same time stop making up something completely new to explain why you can't rule out currently known stuff. Because unlike you I did and instead of accepting that or going out and doing it again yourself you instead made up another completely unheard unproven theory to back up your other unproven theory.


    As far as player avatars you seem to be implying I took those from enemy avatars except that makes zero sense considering everyone and their mother knows they absorb their element. Feel free to redo my tests though if you think they are wrong I do admit I only tested a single avatar maybe something weird is happening. Though the hits I took on leviathan being ~1/16 flat out proves that it's at least <60% and getting the guaranteed 1/2 reduction since otherwise you can't reduce that much between them. But yeah sample size is way too small to determine whether that's normal capped resist rate vs the 10% craziness. Or ya know some combination of varying different resist states, varying stats of the mob as you proc it (or it 2hrs), varying tp, varying weather procs, potentially day procs, given how you go about things I doubt you locked your gear so probably varying pet stats.

    It's fine to have theories and yours might very well be right. But right now it's a theory stop pretending like they are the only possibility when you haven't proven and fully accounted for current known variables at the same time. You aren't ruling anything out if you each time you check 1 variable or 2 at a time while letting others vary unless they were simple pass fail and some failed to do anything (not the case here since we know of multiple variables that definitely do something). Get 2 characters with exact relevant stats you know (or at least know they are the same) hit with the same move that definitely varies from use to use and then we will do some math and talk. Until then stop the eyeballing and going well I take around this much dmg one run and a completely another run take this much dmg blah blah. But since I know you wont don't worry I'll try to get some done in the near future when I have time

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    There are people that still think Mijin is fire based?

    Spoiler: show
    I blame the jps. I mean they totally went out of their way to say player isn't fire but conveniently didn't say monster was only that it was different! They probably trolling us. Actually fuck that I blame all the people who are like well I remember surviving more often with barfire up etc. Shit son we've been in the age of liement for awhile now and even carol IIs were decent for giving easy definite element proof. Should be no need for guess work

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    There are people that still think Mijin is fire based?

    Spoiler: show
    Matters less that it is not fire-based, and more that it seems to be genuine "raw damage" if my interpretation of the JPwiki Mijin Gakure page is correct. Sounds like every method they used to check the damage type came back negative, so it's basically just "damage" without any type. That part doesn't have any mention on the English side, so not a bad thing to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I blame the jps. I mean they totally went out of their way to say player isn't fire but conveniently didn't say monster was only that it was different! They probably trolling us. Actually fuck that I blame all the people who are like well I remember surviving more often with barfire up etc. Shit son we've been in the age of liement for awhile now and even carol IIs were decent for giving easy definite element proof. Should be no need for guess work
    They say on that page that even with negative fire resistance, there is no change in damage, but stuff like Fealty and MDT-% does reduce damage taken, so monster version is most likely classed as "non-elemental magic damage".

  9. #189
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    Well ppl thought it was fire before the community began testing. It was just common knowledge, its a fire animation, therefore Barfire! Granted, some ppl resisted/survived Mijin while others took 3k. It's still not clear how it was resisted/reduced but oh well. I remember people clamoring in Dynamis to get Barfira before every NIN NM.

  10. #190
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    They say on that page that even with negative fire resistance, there is no change in damage, but stuff like Fealty and MDT-% does reduce damage taken, so monster version is most likely classed as "non-elemental magic damage".
    Seems the translator I was using kind of messed some stuff up so looking at it again yeah it says enemy version is magic non attribute... the rest is on the actual mijin page which was confusing me for a second because thought you were referring to the other page lol. Hmmm that's a lot of mijin info i'll have to check out later

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    "raw damage"
    You know the mobs got the damage. No fire, just damage, raw damage. Yo, boom- ah~. The Mijin goes sk~ra~a~at.; pop-pop-pop~khat-khat-khat.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    You know the mobs got the damage. No fire, just damage, raw damage. Yo, boom- ah~. The Mijin goes sk~ra~a~at.; pop-pop-pop~khat-khat-khat.
    I am sorry. I have absolutely no idea what any of that is about. ._. I am assuming that it is a reference to modern American music, most likely rap since it has so few intelligible words, but since I have not listened to non-Japanese music in over 10yrs, it sadly flies waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head. {Please forgive me.}

    Spoiler: show
    I have nothing against rap. It just tends to have more nonsensical words/syllables than other genres since it focuses on rhythm over pitch/tone of sung lyrics. /endpreemptiverebuttal

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I am sorry. I have absolutely no idea what any of that is about. ._. I am assuming that it is a reference to modern American music, most likely rap since it has so few intelligible words, but since I have not listened to non-Japanese music in over 10yrs, it sadly flies waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head. {Please forgive me.}

    Spoiler: show
    I have nothing against rap. It just tends to have more nonsensical words/syllables than other genres since it focuses on rhythm over pitch/tone of sung lyrics. /endpreemptiverebuttal
    Yo, Big Shaq, the one and only. Nya's not hot, never hot. Skr~ra~t, skidi-kat-ka~t. Boom!

    二 plus 二 is 四, minus 一 that's 三 quick maths. Everyday Nya's on the block. Smoke JPs (ah). See your translation in the park. That translation for us suckers. Then the things read "quack-quack-quack".


    Is that a little more clear? You know what I am talking about, my dude?

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I said there was no proof of the first. Because you have zero idea on how to actually test shit and instead stick to tons of well eyeballing this and that. Eyeballing is not testing. If you can't back your shit up with exact numbers and math you aint proofed shit about any of this games math. If you go back thru various threads you'll actually find I've tested acuex having increased dmgs to certain elements.

    I'm going to spell this out for you really simple because you aren't getting it. I know goddamn well things can be accounted for. That's why I'm telling you until you account for all the known variables at the same time stop making up something completely new to explain why you can't rule out currently known stuff. Because unlike you I did and instead of accepting that or going out and doing it again yourself you instead made up another completely unheard unproven theory to back up your other unproven theory.


    As far as player avatars you seem to be implying I took those from enemy avatars except that makes zero sense considering everyone and their mother knows they absorb their element. Feel free to redo my tests though if you think they are wrong I do admit I only tested a single avatar maybe something weird is happening. Though the hits I took on leviathan being ~1/16 flat out proves that it's at least <60% and getting the guaranteed 1/2 reduction since otherwise you can't reduce that much between them. But yeah sample size is way too small to determine whether that's normal capped resist rate vs the 10% craziness. Or ya know some combination of varying different resist states, varying stats of the mob as you proc it (or it 2hrs), varying tp, varying weather procs, potentially day procs, given how you go about things I doubt you locked your gear so probably varying pet stats.

    It's fine to have theories and yours might very well be right. But right now it's a theory stop pretending like they are the only possibility when you haven't proven and fully accounted for current known variables at the same time. You aren't ruling anything out if you each time you check 1 variable or 2 at a time while letting others vary unless they were simple pass fail and some failed to do anything (not the case here since we know of multiple variables that definitely do something). Get 2 characters with exact relevant stats you know (or at least know they are the same) hit with the same move that definitely varies from use to use and then we will do some math and talk. Until then stop the eyeballing and going well I take around this much dmg one run and a completely another run take this much dmg blah blah. But since I know you wont don't worry I'll try to get some done in the near future when I have time
    You must have a very short memory. You gave this exact same "I CAN NEVER BE WRONG, I AM INFALLIBLE" wall of text spiel when I told you that Acuex are absolutely less resistant to fire than they are to ice. You said that I was wrong, that I'm an idiot and it's impossible to test, that it would take years of very special testing, that it can't be "eyeballed"... I told you that I field tested it thousands of times after slaughtering millions of them mercilessly, and I was without a doubt 100% certain that they were weak to fire, because after nuking the exact same high level enemies a few million times, you can see that fire resists MUCH less often than ice. To the point where if you even tried to use ice you would die from the incredible amount of resists you would be getting. This was when they were the highest level enemies introduced with the highest magic evasion. It was fire or bust. You again swore up and down, just like with the bats (who you thought RESISTED wind), that acuex are equally weak to both just because YOU eyeballed that they take increased magic damage from both elements. You gave this exact same defensive rambling but once again you were wrong. So just stop. I don't trust a single word you say, you're not the ultimate authority on game mechanics you think you are. Next time let go of your ego and consider "hey, maybe he's right, maybe acuex have less resistance to fire and bats have less resistance to wind. I should go test it instead of assuming this guy is retarded and didn't test anything or account for variables and just eyeballed it because I'm so fucking awesome and superior and only my methods could possibly ever work because I'm just that good, and anyone else's methods are wrong, they don't see the variables man!!" Seriously just let it go already.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post
    You must have a very short memory. You gave this exact same "I CAN NEVER BE WRONG, I AM INFALLIBLE" wall of text spiel when I told you that Acuex are absolutely less resistant to fire than they are to ice. You said that I was wrong, that I'm an idiot and it's impossible to test, that it would take years of very special testing, that it can't be "eyeballed"... I told you that I field tested it thousands of times after slaughtering millions of them mercilessly, and I was without a doubt 100% certain that they were weak to fire, because after nuking the exact same high level enemies a few million times, you can see that fire resists MUCH less often than ice. To the point where if you even tried to use ice you would die from the incredible amount of resists you would be getting. This was when they were the highest level enemies introduced with the highest magic evasion. It was fire or bust. You again swore up and down, just like with the bats (who you thought RESISTED wind), that acuex are equally weak to both just because YOU eyeballed that they take increased magic damage from both elements. You gave this exact same defensive rambling but once again you were wrong. So just stop. I don't trust a single word you say, you're not the ultimate authority on game mechanics you think you are. Next time let go of your ego and consider "hey, maybe he's right, maybe acuex have less resistance to fire and bats have less resistance to wind. I should go test it instead of assuming this guy is retarded and didn't test anything or account for variables and just eyeballed it because I'm so fucking awesome and superior and only my methods could possibly ever work because I'm just that good, and anyone else's methods are wrong, they don't see the variables man!!" Seriously just let it go already.
    Jfc you two. Big deal!

    He isn't the only one not letting it go.

  16. #196
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    Noticed there were updates {Over there.}, so updated the excel.

    >>>>>>>>> FFXI_Monster_Resistances_full_1-31-18.xlsx <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Only 1x new entry (for Ou, identical to Kin), and couldn't find any new/different data on one of the two pages that were updated, so was probably a description change.

  17. #197
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    Still working on the new adversary template for the new info:

    Current working draft: preview

  18. #198
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    Percents need to go out to at least one decimal, two to be safe since there's at least one value @ 18.75%. The vast majority of typed DT values are on a x/8th scale (possibly a x/16th scale instead,) and it's always a bad idea to intentionally introduce errors.

    EX: In that screenshot, which I believe is Wopket, slashing should be "112.5%" not "115%". I'm assuming this is some sort of rounding error.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Percents need to go out to at least one decimal, two to be safe since there's at least one value @ 18.75%. The vast majority of typed DT values are on a x/8th scale (possibly a x/16th scale instead,) and it's always a bad idea to intentionally introduce errors.
    I'll see how it looks. It's not like anyone couldn't type it. For example I know one mob takes -12.50% magic damage or something.
    Believe craklaws take +12.5% as well. Anyway, I'd just put 12.50% and leave the rest with no decimal if I was personally editing such on a whim.

    It's a manual field at any rate, but yeah I just need to check how it looks and adjust the size if need be. Ty for the input.

  20. #200
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    Noticed something interesting.. Here are the methods they are using to test physical DT values:
    * Shield Bash (Ochain, for very narrow damage range)
    * 1000 Needles (need multiple targets per use due to variances between castings)
    * Crag Throw (damage does not vary except for crits? is this right?)
    * Leaf Dagger (BST jugpet, Sharpwit Hermes, must be close to target due to dmg penalty when at range)

    Extra tools for testing if anyone on our side decides to go for it at least. That selection means they may not be actively testing for all damage types. Anyone know of other things that could be used to reliably test the missing damage types?
    --------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    I'll see how it looks. It's not like anyone couldn't type it. For example I know one mob takes -12.50% magic damage or something.
    Believe craklaws take +12.5% as well. Anyway, I'd just put 12.50% and leave the rest with no decimal if I was personally editing such on a whim.

    It's a manual field at any rate, but yeah I just need to check how it looks and adjust the size if need be. Ty for the input.
    Wasn't saying we need to have ending zeroes, only that existing decimals not be rounded off.

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