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  1. #101
    Ridill
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    So coming back to this trying things that are normal MB stuff (including breaths because they normally don't receive a dmg boost) to see if skillchains still get rid of the sdt for them.

    So for this I used Vermes Carnium which have a 50% for fire. First used moves again Coeurl which have 100% for fire to get base lines and confirm sdt on sandworms. Neither have mdt and I assume no bdt though we shall see lol or mdb. Mad sure had no MBB for the heatbreath part

    Jaguarundi:
    Fire shot - 403
    Heat breath - 1568
    wildfire- 6069

    Vermes Carnium:
    Fire shot - 201
    Heat breath - 784
    wildfire- 3027

    Liquefaction Vermes Carnium:
    Fire shot - 403
    Heat breath - 1568
    Burst affinity heatbreath 1568
    wildfire- 6050

    So SDT reaffirmed to exist effect breath spells, QD and magical ws. Skillchain window still bumps the elemental tier for these even if they aren't MBing.

    And last breath attacks aren't granted a bonus to MB based on tier (though that still hasn't been reaffirmed for other spells so yeah that's next lol). Guess it's just hardcoded they don't increase dmg at all but the MB update just said "The potency of magic bursts has been increased. Magic bursts will now deal increasing damage to monsters that have lower resistance to the element generated by the magic burst.
    * The following spells are exempt from this adjustment.
    Geohelix / Hydrohelix / Anemohelix / Pyrohelix / Cryohelix / Ionohelix / Onctohelix / Luminohelix / Kaustra"

  2. #102
    Ridill
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    All right testing of the bonus dmg for magic burst dmg. Using pld/sch so no MBB

    Doing Blanched Mandragora 150% fire so according to the jp the mb should be +150% dmg for spells effected. Normal 2 step is +60%
    Fire-336
    Pyrohelix-286


    MB
    Fire- 957
    Pyrohelix- 386

    So really weird but pyrohelix was *1.35 so clearly isn't getting the element bonus but doesn't appear to be getting the "The increased potency based on the number of skillchains has been doubled." but is getting another .05. Fire looks like it got a *2.85 which is 1.5+1.35... again that double seems off.

    So going to try a pugil and water since they are 30% which is low enough that a skillchain wont take away sdt or provide a bonus based on the jp numbers.

    water- 175
    hydrohelix-160

    MB
    water-236
    hydrohelix- 216

    Bam *1.35 for both.

    So again just .05 more than preupdate so time to try a 3 step on mandies again.

    Fire-991
    Pyrohelix- 414

    Fire was *2.95. pyrohelix was *1.45

    So seems like that double was only the bonus based on number of steps. So previously it was 1.25 +.05 per step. And since 2 steps were the lowest possible that was 1.3. Now it's 1.25 +.1 per step with 2 step being 1.35. So literally the bonus from number of steps was doubled but the base wasn't like we assumed. And the bonus from lower resistance is added directly to that multiplier.

  3. #103
    Ridill
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    So following up Fwahm's testing on extreme resistance. Used a pld/sch but 119 swd and fair amount of macc should have me capping on easy stuff and in abyssea got to use atmas

    Water Elemental: 5% Reverberation
    Water did 1/16 damage 562/562 times
    Fairly safe to say this is 100% full resist rate +sdt

    Svelldrake (level ~85): 10% Detonation 50% Liquefaction
    In 455 casts, Aero did 1/16 damage 409 times, 1/8 damage 18 time, 1/4 damage 13 time, and 1/2 damage 15 times.
    Intend on getting higher sample but turned to wind and didn't feel like sorting shit out

    In 88 casts, Fire did 1/4 dmg 2 times and 1/2 dmg 2 times. I stopped here because I wasn't really trying establish that for SDT 1/2 doesn't count the whole magic hit rate cap since Fwahm's testing had 300/300 for 15-25%s.

  4. #104
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    So SDT reaffirmed to exist effect breath spells, QD and magical ws. Skillchain window still bumps the elemental tier for these even if they aren't MBing.
    This is good to know.

  5. #105
    Ridill
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    Verified Subtle sorcery this time. Threw some water and cliffclinger toads. As expected at most was doing half dmg and also since I didn't have a great macc set also had <50% hit rate. Popped Subtle sorcery and as jps reported full dmg and had it on every cast.

    Tried with aero on Svelldrake... still had the horrible resist rate (though looked maybe a little bit better probably just shit sample size) but worst I was getting was 1/8 and managed to get a few full dmgs

    So definitely bypassing sdt while also giving a ton to macc but doesn't ignore the extreme resist forced resist

    Edit: Got some more Svelldrake aero distributions. This is just a new set so can/will add to the rest later
    Casts: 9415
    1/16: 8569
    1/8: 259
    1/4: 288
    1/2: 299

  6. #106
    Ridill
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    So combining all the Svelldrake aero data (minus the subtle sorcery ones) we get:
    Casts: 10073
    1/16: 9174 ~91.08%
    1/8: 278 ~ 2.76%
    1/4: 303 ~ 3.01%
    1/2: 318 ~ 3.16%

    Doesn't fit exactly but it looks almost like it's just floored hit rate using normal distribution. Not enough of a statistician to really know how well it fits but 5% hit rate going with known distribution but 5% hit rate would look like

    1/16: 9174 ~85.74%
    1/8: 278 ~ 4.516%
    1/4: 303 ~ 4.75%
    1/2: 318 ~ 5%

    3% seems to be the closest fit to the data set though assuming distribution continues the same as it would be


    1/16: 9174 ~91.27%
    1/8: 278 ~ 2.826%
    1/4: 303 ~ 2.91%
    1/2: 318 ~ 3%

    Someone better at stats can add more if they if not either way we can take it to assume 10% elemental alignment basically floors your hit rate on top of sdt.

    Think that just about wraps up confirmations on the mechanics as well as individual mobs as well as closely related and easily testable stuff except old elemental resistance still factors into skillchain element selection and I guess that potential tangent on if immunobreak/resist trait spells really don't count as an element for a resist or in how many ways since already verified it doesn't effect the soft immunity and that sdt doesn't effect them. Unless anyone can think of something else... and no finding the meva equivalent to the percentage does not count as easily testable... yet.

  7. #107
    Ridill
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    So seems jps still at it testing more mobs as they go. Any word what we doing with the list?

  8. #108
    Sea Torques
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    Just comparing the skillchain multipliers what I found empirically for MB bonuses as one might assume they should match up 1:1 except the skillchain type will reduce the skillchain multiplier rank apparently. (note that the actual magic damage bonus from magic bursts was not addressed specifically...)

    Recall the range of skill chain multipliers from highest rank of resistance to lowest rank of resistance:
    Code:
     5% | 10% | 15% | 20% | 25% | 30% | 40% | 50% | 60% | 70% | 85% | 100% | 115% | 130% | 150%
    For example for Metalcruncher Worm the multipliers in the text file are:
    Code:
    Liquefaction (fire) 130%
    Detonation (wind) 150%
    Impaction (lightning) 150%
    Transfixion (light) 150%
    Induration (ice) 130%
    Scission (earth) 70%
    Reverberation (water) 130%
    Compression (dark) 100%
    I ended up with the following (approximate, as there are rounding errors due to flooring I suppose) MB bonuses where you add the value to 1.35:
    Code:
    Liquefaction (fire) 1.5
    Detonation (wind) 1.5
    Impaction (lightning) 1.5
    Transfixion (light) (not observed)
    Induration (ice) 1.5
    Scission (earth) 0.4
    Reverberation (water) 1.5
    Compression (dark) 0.85
    Since a skill chain is supposed to reduce the skillchain resistance rank by 1, it would make sense that the corresponding MB bonus would match from whatever skillchain I actually did (whether level 1 or level 2 since I used Immanence). However it doesn't explain earth damage and dark damage so perhaps skillchain resistances and magic burst resistances should not be considered the same especially when I discovered situations where there is no magic burst bonus (0%) applied.

  9. #109
    Ridill
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    Hate to break it to you but that has already been gone over. Though I only linked the picture instead of posting it so I'll post the pic

    The skillchain values only apply to skillchains. The mb use different values but based on the same tier system



    As you can see the 70% skillchains goes right to 40% bonus and the 100% goes to 85% bonus which fits your data

    side note outside of monster specific stuff. Findings in this thread should all be on the resist page now

  10. #110
    Sea Torques
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    Whoops didn't see that nor the updated BGWiki article.

    Maybe now I can convince people to stop casting Blizzard nukes in Dynamis for MB.. (water/earth/darkness k thx)..

  11. #111
    Ridill
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    Also note the jps are continuing to add mobs like every couple of weeks often doing newly released content when it comes (though some of that is just doing ambuscade while they can lol) so if there was one not specifically out there can check back again. Usually have pictures and an English name that is easy to tell

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Hate to break it to you but that has already been gone over. Though I only linked the picture instead of posting it so I'll post the pic

    The skillchain values only apply to skillchains. The mb use different values but based on the same tier system



    As you can see the 70% skillchains goes right to 40% bonus and the 100% goes to 85% bonus which fits your data

    side note outside of monster specific stuff. Findings in this thread should all be on the resist page now
    Ty Dasva.

  13. #113

    Are there some instances where monster attacks can bypass the special SDT/resistance on the player/pet side of the equation? I can resist VD Leviathan's Grand Fall every time on my SMN through magic evasion alone but Ramuh, who should supposedly be taking piddly damage from water, takes like 900 damage

  14. #114
    Chram
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    I don't think the player avatars have crazy high resistance to elements other than their own, do they? 900 sounds like a 1/2 resist, which seems reasonable concerning a player avatar getting hit by the element weak to theirs'.

  15. #115
    Nidhogg
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    I thought they have resistance to their own as well as the element they're strong vs, e.g. Leviathan strongly resists Water and Fire. At least it seemed that way in Abyssea when I did some random testing against elementals.

  16. #116
    Chram
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    Enemy avatars do, but I don't think that holds for player avatars. I believe that player avatars only have extreme resistance to their own element.

  17. #117
    Ridill
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    Not sure there has been much testing on abilities/mechanics that can bypass such things and the only player known ones are rayke, skillchains and subtle sorcery.

    And haven't seen specific testing of alignment of player avatars probably because it's not fun (could probably do in ballista tough) to do but can say they are probably decently different. For 1 enemy ones have absorptions to their elements.
    2. Enemy ones are also extremely resistant to pretty much all elements except what they are weak to and differ by version. For example Trial primes are at 5% for every element except they absorb same and 150% for weak. While the HTFB version is absorbs same, 100% for weak, 5% for strong and 30% for the rest.

    Seems unlikely that they'd give us something that resistant to most things anyways. Based on the testimony it sounds like it's just hitting SDT but not the super high resist rate scales so somewhere between 15 and 50%. If I had to guess I'd say they did similar to HTBF version (or really vice versa) but scaled around neutral elements being well more neutral so 100%ish with same has been switch from absorb to really high and strong elements being probably more around 30%. Which should make it have more meva to that element but non visible pet stats have scaled terribly to not at all with ilvl

  18. #118
    Chram
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    Personally, I'd guess that player avatars are 100% or 150% to their weak element, 5% to their element, 50% to their strong element, and 100% to everything else.

  19. #119
    Ridill
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    Used 99 Ramuh vs ilvl geared sch

    222 geohelix into 276 scission. Rayke with 1 rune same dmgs so 150%

    222 Anemohelix into 239 Detonation, rayke with 1 rune boosts that to 276 so 130%

    Hydrohelix deal 12 dmg almost every single time so 5 or 10%. Switched to water vast majority did 24 but did a few higher. After 1 rune rayke all waters were 202 so 10%.

    Ionohelix deal 12 dmg almost every single time so 5 or 10%. Switched to thunder vast majority did 26 but did a few higher. After 1 rune rayke all thunders were 217 so 10%.


    So 10% for strong/same element. 150% for weak element and 130% for all others. Light/dark avatars probably different but who cares

    Sidenote switched to 119 and thunder was still only doing 22 so doesn't look like it gains any mdb. Also neutral elements were dealing more to avatar than master unless I stripped off most my gear... so I'd guess a bit of it has to do with stats and lack of mdb and mdt. And being 10% means just really high resist rates not 100% full 1/8 resists

  20. #120

    Interesting. I guess VD Leviathan must have pretty high macc to consistently destroy Ramuh even with 10% water resist

    And yeah avatars are essentially naked unless the SMN specifically gears them with defensive gear which isn't often. They do gain the regular iLVL stats (INT, magic evasion, the /checkparam stats) but they don't get more magic defense bonus which is more of a "trait" and not really part of ilvl (it just happens that most player gear has a bit of it on each piece)
    From what I remember they're considered BLM and they get Magic Attack Bonus @ the regular amount a BLM would have at 99 naked through traits but that's about it

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