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  1. #121
    Ridill
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    That wont matter. At 10% there is a high resist rate completely independent of macc. It's more likely you were both resisting but you might have resisted better and just had lot better other stats.

  2. #122

    Ramuh was still taking 1800+ damage sometimes, but mostly 900. That's a 1/2 resist only. I was getting full 1/8th resists with magic evasion/barwater (this is solo, so I didn't have anything crazy like carols) so I don't know. I hear Leviathan's Grand Fall is breath damage, so maybe that has something to do with it? Or maybe it points back to my original question and some enemy abilities simply ignore the 5-10% special resist

  3. #123
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    130% to neutral elements was unexpected but interesting. I always thought Avatars had a base 50% DT but maybe that's only physical?

  4. #124
    Ridill
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    You also have to figure ramuh also has a ton less int too. All elemental dmg counts for this breath too.

    Given the relatively new testing on this it's not 100% known if somehow some mobs special moves bypass but players don't have anything that does (that we know of. not sure if jps tested avatar moves) they can just modify it. Would need much more controlled tests to really see as with stuff as it it can be explained by other factors. Even a full resist on ramuh might not be that much reduction plus since it's already taking more you might notice the big ones even more and HTBF kind of changes because of procs

    Those percentages are just for elemental/skillchain resistance. I didn't bother to do any actual mdt/mdb testing partly because well that's not what I was going for and it'd be really hard to do in ballista while the resistance testing can really only be done there and always thought it was only pdt

  5. #125

    Nirvana and 119 sachet adds a ton of INT so avatars don't really have bad INT compared to a regular player not specifically gearing for INT (which I wasn't, but for magic evasion)
    They're BLM and they do get the INT equivalent to 119-122 player (nirvana, cape) with normal gear
    Otherwise their nukes would completely suck and resist on everything which isn't the case. As I remember someone calculated exactly how much INT an 119 avatar has and it's a good amount and INT increases their magic bloodpact damage as expected

    Avatars never had 50% DT, only 50% PDT, they take normal damage from their neutral elements. They're supposed to highly resist their strong/apposing elements only and take normal damage otherwise from magic. Also I noted that Astral Flow (INT+100) reduces damage to ~700 with a 1/2 resist but still no full resists you'd expect

  6. #126
    Ridill
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    Do you have any links to them adding a lot? Because I can't see any info and +lvl pup did very very little for base stats and sancus doesn't say anything about base stats and normally 119 is reported at just 209 and that's not really a lot. And the rest is kind of speculation. dint has caps and greatly reduced effectiveness unless close

    I bet you are getting some full resists but they are still just higher dmg than base dmg than you expect. Who was the main target here?

  7. #127

    It's on an FFXIAH thread somewhere, I'll try to sift through it to find the testing. But even if it is only 209, On SMN I have like 260 INT after gear and as noted even +100 int from astral flow doesn't reduce damage that dramatically. I used August once to test him and he took a ~1900 Grand Fall and promptly died, which seems to be the "normal" 119-ish INT unresisted damage. Amchuchu of course is much more resistant

  8. #128
    Old Odin
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    Wait wat, Avatars have 50% PDT, not DT?
    When did we find out exactely? Is this true for other pets who we thought to have 50% DT as well? (Luopan etc)

  9. #129

    I'm not sure why it became a common misconception but it's always been that way, magic has always been an avatar's worst enemy with their incredibly low HP, it destroys them much more quickly than anything physical. Like the frog ambuscade from the previous month, without odyllic a single -aga nuke and they're done for. They're very squishy to elements they're not resistant to, you can do a quick test to see they have no MDT by going to a high level Adoulin worm or something, calling say Ifrit (neutral to earth), unequipping sachet so it's only 99, and watching as it takes normal damage from Stonega III or Quake or whatever. Compare to the damage you take naked at 99 without shell for verification. Assuming you don't get any lucky resists (do it multiple times to be sure) you should both take roughly the same damage minus any additional INT or magic defense bonus you may have (which won't be nearly enough to equal what you would see with 50% MDT so it will be easy to tell)

  10. #130



    So this is what getting caught with no shell, no buffs, no MDT gear, low magic evasion and 262 INT looks like. Full damage/no resist on both
    I really do think these avatar merit battlefield abilities ignore special elemental resist, or at least Leviathan's do. I have yet to see anything more than the occasional half resist on Ramuh, even though I can fully resist it easily with buffs and gear. Not a single 1/8th resist at any point on Ramuh indicative of his special water resist

  11. #131
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    Did a lot of improving and clarifying to the Resist page on the wiki based on this thread and work Dasva added; as well as talking to Geriond (who can't even beat Ironside without d/cing, tsk-tsk).

    Let me know if I misunderstood anything or anything should be rewritten.

    Also added a Nuke Wall section to the magic damage page since that didn't exist. Subtle Sorcery said it simply ignores SDT, fixed. Updated Rayke with information on both SDT and the consecutive nuking penalty.

  12. #132
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post


    So this is what getting caught with no shell, no buffs, no MDT gear, low magic evasion and 262 INT looks like. Full damage/no resist on both
    I really do think these avatar merit battlefield abilities ignore special elemental resist, or at least Leviathan's do. I have yet to see anything more than the occasional half resist on Ramuh, even though I can fully resist it easily with buffs and gear. Not a single 1/8th resist at any point on Ramuh indicative of his special water resist
    Gunnna need a lot ALOT more than just on the fly only a small portion of stats accounted for to really even say if there was a resist or not let alone to do something like that. The tools to preform such a test are in here but I lack the current time to really do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Did a lot of improving and clarifying to the Resist page on the wiki based on this thread and work Dasva added; as well as talking to Geriond (who can't even beat Ironside without d/cing, tsk-tsk).

    Let me know if I misunderstood anything or anything should be rewritten.

    Also added a Nuke Wall section to the magic damage page since that didn't exist. Subtle Sorcery said it simply ignores SDT, fixed. Updated Rayke with information on both SDT and the consecutive nuking penalty.
    It said ignored SDT because that's what it did. Though it looks like they renamed the elemental % to sdt... which is well confusing consider what everyone has referred to as SDT (partly because that's the same term we use for physical). And for subtle sorcery it works at all percentages it just doesn't overcome the actual resist chance from really low % or presumable just random odds even at capped hit rates which is kind of why I think it's better to term the differentiate normal resist tiers and the ones for being under 50% as different terms even more so since immunobreak spells are ignored

    Also quick look so far but so far changes to the content resist page are similar confusing or just flat wrong and contradict what was there before

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Gunnna need a lot ALOT more than just on the fly only a small portion of stats accounted for to really even say if there was a resist or not let alone to do something like that. The tools to preform such a test are in here but I lack the current time to really do that


    It said ignored SDT because that's what it did. Though it looks like they renamed the elemental % to sdt... which is well confusing consider what everyone has referred to as SDT (partly because that's the same term we use for physical). Also quick look so far but so far changes to the content resist page are similar confusing or just flat wrong and contradict what was there before
    If Sorcery ignored SDT then it wouldn't be fine casting at the 20% tier then shit a tier or two lower. It needed to be clarified regardless as it doesn't completely ignore it.

    As far as the resist page, I could revert and it back to it being insufficient. Then just paste the tables I made to replace the centered plain text tiers if I did that bad a job with it, sorry.

  14. #134
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    If Sorcery ignored SDT then it wouldn't be fine casting at the 20% tier then shit a tier or two lower. It needed to be clarified regardless as it doesn't completely ignore it.

    As far as the resist page, I could revert and it back to it being insufficient and just paste the tables that replaced the centered plain text tiers if I did that bad a job with it, sorry.
    That's because you are changing terms. SDT was the term specifically for the 1/2 "resist" for being below 50% as well as the direct reductions in dmg from physical. Using that for this newly discovered term is going to cause confusion for anyone who knew what sdt was before. That aside subtle sorcery STILL ignores that all the way down to 5% it just has no effect actual resists including the ones that ignore macc/meva at lower tiers. ie subtle sorcery against a 5% will only be a 1/8th reduction while without it would be 1/16

    It's more specific things that kind of messed things up. Like changing terms to one that would confuse people especially when bringing up physical. You start saying 150% sdt to piercing and to fire and people are going to wonder why it increases the dmg of the first and not the second (except in specific situations). Then there is the debuff thing... enfeebling effects that have resist traits aren't subject to the <50% reduction (though are still resistant to that element) and instead (or perhaps in conjunction with more testing needed) seem to use resist enfeeble stat (different than actually resist traits). So you can in fact somewhat easily fully land dark sleep on a ghost but not on a skeleton normally (though you can with immunobreak/stymie). But enfeebling effects like absorbs are subject and so will go to 1/2, 1/4 and full resist and no full duration. And of course back to the subtle sorcery thing. The rest seems fine and a lot prettier. Had no idea how to really table to make things line up

  15. #135
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    Well at least I got the tables right.

    Species Damage Taken is dead because we know what it is now. Resist page said Specific instead of species before I even started so I rolled it out.

  16. #136
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    How do we want to deal w/ updates? I just checked and it looks like it'll be 100% manual though, since it appears that the edit history display is disabled.. So someone is going to have to check the updated pages (according to the bar on the left) and compare what's there to what we have... I don't mind checking in over there occasionally and importing new entries into the spreadsheet, just don't expect rapid updates. ^^;;

    Entirely new mobs (like Ambuscade version additions) will be nice and simple, but I did a quick scan of the next few newer updated pages and didn't spot any new mobs, which means details were added/changed, which are going to take a lot of work sort out. That's why I don't think it's going to be speedy work on my end. If there are any programmers out there who could whip up something that could scrape differences from updated pages when they go up on their RSS, I'm sure that it would be much faster than whatever speed I can manage manually.

  17. #137
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    Here's all the new data since my initial posting: >>>>>Excel 1-16-18 <<<<<
    Still working on integrating it into the main file. Will update w/ a link here later.

    Looks like they are working on physical resistances as well now. @[email protected] The sheet is going to get rather messy, so should we restructure the sheet? I can add columns for each physical damage type, though I need someone to help me identify the kanji for each type if we want to be 100% certain.

  18. #138
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Well at least I got the tables right.

    Species Damage Taken is dead because we know what it is now. Resist page said Specific instead of species before I even started so I rolled it out.
    hmmm it shouldn't have other than specifically for the <50% thing. Guess I'll have to give that a look

    Edit: yeah it was just for that. Though yeah lol specific whoops. kind of a typo.. though maybe that works?

    Either way we do need a separate term for the <50% since it 1) it acts completely different from "normal" resist though no way to proof one way or another 2) it gets super complicated trying to talk about it as resist... but one that is different from resist in most ways lol.

  19. #139
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    How do we want to deal w/ updates? I just checked and it looks like it'll be 100% manual though, since it appears that the edit history display is disabled.. So someone is going to have to check the updated pages (according to the bar on the left) and compare what's there to what we have... I don't mind checking in over there occasionally and importing new entries into the spreadsheet, just don't expect rapid updates. ^^;;

    Entirely new mobs (like Ambuscade version additions) will be nice and simple, but I did a quick scan of the next few newer updated pages and didn't spot any new mobs, which means details were added/changed, which are going to take a lot of work sort out. That's why I don't think it's going to be speedy work on my end. If there are any programmers out there who could whip up something that could scrape differences from updated pages when they go up on their RSS, I'm sure that it would be much faster than whatever speed I can manage manually.
    If you mean the jp site it kind of confuses me at times. Like at first it seemed the dated ones would be new stuff they added... and it was to an extent but then it ended up being any changes they made and some and would have some older stuff at times and I think I found some newer stuff at old parts so ended up just doing the lists above that which seemed to be some kind of ordered pages that seem to be somewhat by family as they add but god it is a tad confusing trying to find stuff

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Either way we do need a separate term for the <50% since it 1) it acts completely different from "normal" resist though no way to proof one way or another 2) it gets super complicated trying to talk about it as resist... but one that is different from resist in most ways lol.
    I suppose.

    Overall I was trying to make things clear although separating it would further enhance that.

    Basically what I saw was a section of the new information then three outdated lines below from species that now said specific. Which sounded good as a term for SDT to me, since it is very specific to the monster, and referenced what we now understand. So it seemed out of place, and almost pointless to stand alone at the bottom of the page given what was above it discussing tiers and so on.

    So I moved it, then moving it turned into "okay the ele order for SC damage selection is vague/not listed" and "okay, rayke isn't mentioned, nor is multi element SCs interacting with tiers", and so on.
    Which then became "lets make this clearer" as a bit of it isn't compared to the OP of this thread. Then I read through the same shit here a few times over for what seems like an eternity to try and make sure it was fine.

    Then, apparently fucking it up. So, tag you are it!

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