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  1. #161
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    Zantetsuken also does some kind of strange percentage damage like Diabolos's Ruinous Omen so it does less on NMs with less max HP, and also does less damage as their HP falls (usually breath attacks are based on the user's HP, not the target's HP)

    Reverse Breath Damage? lol

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    I think the page there says it's MB'able as well off darkness element SC's, but may be non-elemental damage itself? :/ I've reread it several times and that really is what it sounds like... And translate.google.com actually confirms. MB element = dark, damage element = nonattribute. O.o

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Yep, that was the face I made while reading that.

    After many re-reads, I'm pretty sure that it means that it's "Dark elemental, untyped damage". Think of it like a dark-dmg Requiescat I guess...?

  4. #164
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    Pretty much what it says, though it's noteworthy that this is just their best guess based on the fact that it can be used to MB on dark elemental skillchains but will steal deal damage to mobs that resist/absorb dark elemental damage. What their wording boils down to is that its "MB element" is darkness while it appears that it deals non-elemental damage.

    Not sure if MB element is an actual term used for other purposes in either community, but that's pretty much what they defined there in order to make sense of it.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitssk View Post
    Pretty much what it says, though it's noteworthy that this is just their best guess based on the fact that it can be used to MB on dark elemental skillchains but will steal deal damage to mobs that resist/absorb dark elemental damage. What their wording boils down to is that its "MB element" is darkness while it appears that it deals non-elemental damage.

    Not sure if MB element is an actual term used for other purposes in either community, but that's pretty much what they defined there in order to make sense of it.
    Interesting. ~_~;; I wonder if it's possible to determine what damage class (magic, breath, raw damage, or some oddball hybrid.) Anyone know if a player would survive the Death portion and take actual damage in PvP? Could shuffle around various types of DT- gear to figure out if it actually counts as breath damage or only functions similarly.

    OOC, if you are able to confidently read Japanese, would you mind confirming the terms we've been discussing for the damage type resistances?

  6. #166
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    Nope for players it either kills them 100% of the time or misses, it never deals damage

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Interesting. ~_~;; I wonder if it's possible to determine what damage class (magic, breath, raw damage, or some oddball hybrid.) Anyone know if a player would survive the Death portion and take actual damage in PvP? Could shuffle around various types of DT- gear to figure out if it actually counts as breath damage or only functions similarly.

    OOC, if you are able to confidently read Japanese, would you mind confirming the terms we've been discussing for the damage type resistances?
    I have no idea what OOC means, but if you're referring to me, I can give it a look later on. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere or does the last page cover all terms that are presently deemed unclear?

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitssk View Post
    I have no idea what OOC means, but if you're referring to me, I can give it a look later on. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere or does the last page cover all terms that are presently deemed unclear?
    OOC = Out Of Curiosity. Sorry, I probably use rather archaic 'net terms sometimes.

    Everything should be on the prior page I think. Might be missing "ranged attack" though, so will look for a mob w/ that confirmed, but by and large, ranged damage is normally only classified as piercing I believe. :/ Can anyone else come up w/ a good example? I went thru the full list and did not find anything other than the terms we've already found, so I'm calling "ranged = piercing", at least until something over there changes to indicate otherwise.

    Here's all of the terms that I've isolated so far, along with what I think they mean:
    被斬ダメージ = 被斬 = Destructive damage = slashing
    被突ダメージ = 被突 = Collision Damage = piercing
    被格打ダメージ = 被格打 = Demilitarized damage = blunt (general)
    被格ダメージ = 被格 = Damage = blunt (h2h)
    被打ダメージ = 被打 = Hit damage = blunt (non-h2h)
    被ブレスダメージ = ブレス = Breath damage = Breath

    Confirmation would be much appreciated. ^^

  9. #169
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    Seems to be correct, but those direct translations certainly do sound weird as hell. Just a note for those - direct translations for terms such as 格打 won't make any sense since they're just neologisms made up for the game. 格打, for instance, is just a combination of the two damage types, as such, anyone who uses such a term would be pretty much just abbreviating "H2H and blunt weapon damage". The same applies to 被格 as well, since it's just an abbreviation for 格闘, which is H2H, or 被斬, in which only 斬 is of importance since it refers to the cutting/slashing part.

    On that note, 被 isn't strictly necessary in this context since it only refers to damage taken (or other effects something is affected by) by whatever it is you're talking about, though in the game itself, it is mostly limited to players (被ケアル回復量+x%, Potency of Cure received, 被ダメージ-x%, Damage received etc.), at least in the context of equip.

    Edit: Regarding ranged/piercing, I think this is another interesting case since a few sources distinguish it from piercing damage (see http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/26402.html, where it's listed separately). I think it would be safe to consider it to be the same as the H2H/blunt situation in that they both deal the same type of damage when considering the three basic types of melee damage, but are still considered different in various situations; thinking of which, maybe that's why mobs can be immune to ranged damage but still take damage from regular piercing weapons since it would probably be difficult for the game to distinguish these otherwise.

  10. #170
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    Albumen for example is -50% ranged but lists no piercing bonus or penalty. Typically mandragora have a +25% to piercing.

  11. #171
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    @Petitssk: Awesome! Thank you very much for the sanity/translation check. ^_^ I've already gotten used to a lot of the quirks with how the in-line GTrans tends to spit certain things out (ie: "Face" instead of "Faith", which JPside prefers to use over "Trust".) Kinda figured it was an induced error since we're dealing with "game terms" rather than "real words".

    I left the "被" in all of the entries because we are looking specifically at "classified damage taken by monsters", and leaving it in should hopefully reduce the number of those connecting this data to players/pets in error. I knew about Tabiya Gambit, but didn't know of any specific monster entries that had any form of "ranged damage" listed as a specific modifier.

    @Spicyryan: And that works! :D Albumen is indeed listed with a special damage mod there. (Of note: Albumen is actually the ONLY mob with that mod listed currently. They've only just recently started working on physical resistances however.)
    Code:
    Remotely damaged - 50% ||| 被遠隔ダメージ - 50%
    So we now have the final known physical damage class I believe? Are we still missing any?





    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ReEdited and Reformatted Excel 01-25-18<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Sorted out the confirmed physical damage type data into their own columns. Notes moved to the right edge. Only thing that looks funky that I still don't know what to do with is the varying MDB values for HTB mobs. :/

  12. #172
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    That be all of them except breath or something like "nonelemental".

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    That be all of them except breath or something like "nonelemental".
    Breath is written in katakana and is read literally as "Breath", (just say it in Engrish like my grandma.) Acuex have it listed.

    "Non-typed damage resistance" would have to be registered as it's own class I think. Don't think I've ever heard of any mob that was specifically resistant to stuff like Requiescat and Quick Draw tho... Otherwise, it would just fall under one of the big umbrellas of PDT/MDT/DT, no?

    EDIT: This is a good read. o.o >>> JPWiki Non-Elemental Damage page

  14. #174
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    Holy shit this thread moved while I've been busy. Guess I should stop making mythics lol. Can't really address the translation issues and some of these things will take a bit more time and thought but try to get to some. As far as nameology I don't care what we call this really just needs to be separate from normal resist and the <60% reductions need to be termed differently based on how they act and for ease of reading

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Sidenote: Shouldn't we be able to test if pets are identical to wild mobs by getting an acuex pet hit w/ breath dmg? Might have to ballista or something, but if it doesn't take double expected damage, wouldn't that confirm that pets are different than wild?
    Already tested all jugs and auto frames mdt, pdt, and bdt

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    So they are saying Acuex have damage taken -62.5% before blunt (hit damage) -75%?? That seems, wrong.
    Acuex do indeed have a huge resistance to blunt not sure about the rest. The jugs do as well and it stacks additively with pet pdt/dt and SS so you can really similar to how bird jesus does with slashing


    Also to go back to the Grand fall thing. Finally got to check it out yesterday. Levi Prime vs 2 smns same gear same jps just different avatars

    Leviathan Prime uses Grand fall
    Leviathan takes 30 points of damage.
    Ifrit takes 507 points of damage.

    Leviathan Prime uses Tidal wave
    Leviathan takes 31 points of damage.
    Ifrit takes 516 points of damage.

    Leviathan Prime uses Grand fall
    Leviathan takes 30 points of damage.
    Ifrit takes 507 points of damage.

    So nope working normal for elemental resist

    See you guys sorted out the ranged thing. It's rare but it's actually been around at least in form of flat out immunities since well Ahrimans have existed.

  15. #175
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    I'm guessing you weren't doing VD? The mechanics could be different on easy difficulties. I'm talking about the merit battlefields btw, not the original fights



    Doesn't look like Ramuh's supposed resist (which according to your testing is the same as Leviathan's) is triggering. Ifrit certainly isn't taking 25,000 damage

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    @Petitssk: Awesome! Thank you very much for the sanity/translation check. ^_^ I've already gotten used to a lot of the quirks with how the in-line GTrans tends to spit certain things out (ie: "Face" instead of "Faith", which JPside prefers to use over "Trust".) Kinda figured it was an induced error since we're dealing with "game terms" rather than "real words".

    I left the "被" in all of the entries because we are looking specifically at "classified damage taken by monsters", and leaving it in should hopefully reduce the number of those connecting this data to players/pets in error. I knew about Tabiya Gambit, but didn't know of any specific monster entries that had any form of "ranged damage" listed as a specific modifier.

    @Spicyryan: And that works! :D Albumen is indeed listed with a special damage mod there. (Of note: Albumen is actually the ONLY mob with that mod listed currently. They've only just recently started working on physical resistances however.)

    So we now have the final known physical damage class I believe? Are we still missing any?
    Next to Albumen or Caturae with their Gambit, Ahrimans with Airy Shield would also come to mind. Though if you're looking for simple resistances instead of abilities, the best one I could think of at this point would be the Gigas bosses in Apollyon NE, as one of them is immune to Ranged damage, yet can be damaged with piercing melee weapons (and vice-versa, which, when looked at in this context, makes it seem more like they did not just flip the melee damage switch, but rather the Slashing/Piercing/Blunt-switches while leaving the Magic and Ranged switches active).

    And no problem, feel free to ask if there's anything unclear, I'd like to help where I can.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petitssk View Post
    Next to Albumen or Caturae with their Gambit, Ahrimans with Airy Shield would also come to mind. Though if you're looking for simple resistances instead of abilities, the best one I could think of at this point would be the Gigas bosses in Apollyon NE, as one of them is immune to Ranged damage, yet can be damaged with piercing melee weapons (and vice-versa, which, when looked at in this context, makes it seem more like they did not just flip the melee damage switch, but rather the Slashing/Piercing/Blunt-switches while leaving the Magic and Ranged switches active).

    And no problem, feel free to ask if there's anything unclear, I'd like to help where I can.

    There's also the Evil Weapons in Ro'Mauve which were introduced as part of one of the mini-addon quests. One of them is immune to everything except ranged damage

  18. #178
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    There are definitely a couple mobs that specifically have Formless Strikes/Twilight Scythe/Murasamemaru/Requiescat resistance. Mobs like Steel Weapon and Apollyon SE mobs that resist everything but a single damage type resist those as well, and I could have sworn there were a few mobs that SE introduced in reaction to Twilight Scythe spam (before the nerf) that specifically resisted non-elemental damage.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobs67 View Post
    I'm guessing you weren't doing VD? The mechanics could be different on easy difficulties. I'm talking about the merit battlefields btw, not the original fights



    Doesn't look like Ramuh's supposed resist (which according to your testing is the same as Leviathan's) is triggering. Ifrit certainly isn't taking 25,000 damage
    That was normal. Need to be able to eat some hits

    Like I've said feel free to do a real test. But it's going to take alot more than omg big dmg compared to others in range with completely different stats to prove theories that have never been seen in any way shape or fashion. If you don't account for other magic damage variables you can't ignore them and start inventing new things to explain it

    Also 10% doesn't guarantee full resist only high likelihood and the -50% cut so it's quite possible others would only be taking 3200

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Breath is written in katakana and is read literally as "Breath", (just say it in Engrish like my grandma.) Acuex have it listed.

    "Non-typed damage resistance" would have to be registered as it's own class I think. Don't think I've ever heard of any mob that was specifically resistant to stuff like Requiescat and Quick Draw tho... Otherwise, it would just fall under one of the big umbrellas of PDT/MDT/DT, no?

    EDIT: This is a good read. o.o >>> JPWiki Non-Elemental Damage page
    It's hard to parse with just translators but I'll try while mixing in personal/wiki knowledge. It looks like it's breaking apart and explaining it in 3 separate categories.

    1. Physical dmgs that don't count as one of the 3/4 types (didn't they recently combine the blunt types?). This is things like twilight scythe auto attack, Masamune ws, and requiescat. Not 100% but it sounds like they are saying their isn't specifically a reduction to it per se but that mobs can have really really high -dt/pdt values while also having increased dmg taken to one of the main 3/4 types to basically counter the -pdt for that type of magic. Ie all the mobs that are immune to all but one type of dmg. This is also somewhat observable with our jug pets. Where a few can have a +/- to one of the 3/4 types and when you add pet dt/pdt it adds to it instead of being a separate term.

    2. breath/magic type attacks with none of the 8 elements. This would be player meteor and magic mortar for magic and for breath it would be Spirits within, Zantetsuken vs nms, formless strikes, chi blast and atonement. There is no resistance for lack of element like there is for the 8 as such it's resist resistant which as far as I can tell means actually unresistable though obviously subject to mdt/bdt

    3.Attacks that don't fall under any type and are such unaffected by pdt/mdt/bdt/dt that may or may not have one of the 8 elements. These are concentric pulse, QD, and something weird that doesn't translate well but I think they are talking about the player version Mijin. Again no specific reduction to this kind of damage however there can be reductions applied that would normally be applied to magic/breath. Such as elemental resistance or whatever we are calling it for qd elements, actual resist, and things that reduce/increase an elements dmg like vallation for players or a rare trait for mobs.

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