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  1. #1
    Ridill
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    Legends of the Hidden jp testing

    So there is a wealth of info/testing on jp wiki/blogs that well never really gets seen by the English community unless a jp reader in the English community happens to peruse those AND lets us know. And some of it is kind of revolutionary... like what really pushed me to finally start doing this was some crazy stuff about skillchains shared on ffxiah that is basically unknown our side... though wanted to since I started seeing some of their macc testing (they knew way before us that geo spells were literally just working wrong) and dint retesting etc.

    In light of that thought we should have a thread where we can raise attention to any such and parse what they mean and hopefully have someone fluent in moonrunes provide real translations since often GT is just enough to get a gist of it. Will try to include original jp links so someone can provide proper translations as necessary and hopefully. And as a lot of these particularly jp wiki doesn't provide the actually testing or at least can't find it a lot of times probably some level of verification of these.

    And with that here's a first one found in the ffxiah RUN forums. Credit to Tarowyn for finding, alerted us to it and provided a nice translation.

    Original jp. It also gives a bunch of related stats needed to do this testing (more on that later) for various mobs on this and the following pages though not sure where the next page button is lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrir.Tarowyn
    Spoiler: show
    After the Jun 17th 2014 version update, resists on skillchain damage were removed and a damage bonus/reduction was added to skillchain damage based upon the target's elemental resistance.
    Because of this, we were able to gain important information about monster's resistances which can be used both tactically and to expand the worldview.
    These pages explore the interesting world that this information provides.

    How to read the chart
    The listings for Magic Damage Taken +- were measured using en spells and the blue mage spell Thousand Needles and Magic Defense Bonus was calculated using Swipe.
    Skillchain damage decreases as the elemental resistance is higher and increases as the resistance is lower.
    For example, on Fire Elementals which are weak to water and strong to fire, Liquefaction damage is reduced to 5% of it's original value while Reverberation damage is increased 150%.
    The skillchain damage multiplier is seperated into the below 15 levels, no other levels exist.

    High resistance | 5% | 10% | 15% | 20% | 25% | 30% | 40% | 50% | 60% | 70% | 85% | 100% | 115% | 130% | 150% | Low resistance

    For skillchains with multiple elements like lvl 2 and 3 skillchains, the elemental with the lowest resistance is chosen. When there's no difference in the resistance level, the game picks it in the default order of the game's magic list Fire Ice Wind Earth Lightning Water Light Dark.
    For instance, for something like mimic's which have 100% for all elements, Light skillchains will be treated as fire damage and Dark skillchains will be treated as ice damage.
    Furthermore, for Lynxes which have 100% Fire 115% Wind 60% Thunder 115% Light, Light skillchains will be treated as wind damage, while treants which have 130% Ice 100% Earth 100% Water 150% Dark, Dark skillchains will be treated as dark damage.
    Therefore if you want the Dark Elemental Magic Attack Bonus from the pixie hairpin +1 to apply a Dark skillchain, you need to to pick a family like treants with the aforementioned resistances or you need to adjust elemental resistances as stated below.

    During the magic burst window that follows a skillchain, the elemental resistance rank goes down by 1, due to this lvl 2 and 3 skillchains in 3 part or more skillchains can have more complicated cases.
    For instance, on bats which are 130% Fire 150% Wind 130% Lightning 150% Light, if you do Atonement ->; Resolution, the Light skilchain damage becomes wind damage (Wind has the higher priority of the two 150% elements). However, if you do a 3 part chain of Immanence Fire ->; Immanence Thunder ->; Resolution, the Light skillchain damage becomes fire damage. (During the MB window of Fusion, Fire and Light resistances are removed and the resistances become 150% Fire 150% Wind 130% Lightning 150% Light and the higher priority fire is chosen instead).
    Also, the elemental resistance rank reduction is reset after each skillchain and doesn't stack so you can't do longer skillchains to decrease the resistance rank further.

    For elements in which the skillchain damage multipler is 50% or less, spells of that element get guaranteed resists of either 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 damage.
    For instance, when casting water or kaustra on Coppercaps which have 40% Water 50% Dark you're guaranteed to get a resist, even if it's a Too Weak mob and you use Elemental Seal, Frazzle, Focus, Langour, etc..., you will be unable to get a full damage hit.
    However, certain exceptions exist. As mentioned above, MB can reduce the resistance rank. Rayke and Subtle Sorcery can also be used to enable full damage to be reached.

    Since the MB window reduces the elemental resistance of the matching element(s), a 50% element rank would change to 60% thereby eliminating the guaranteed resist and allowing a full damage hit to occur.
    In more detail, in the case of the Coppercap with their 40% Water 50% Dark, if kaustra is cast during a MB window, the Dark will be 60%, removing the guaranteed resist and allowing a full damage hit can occur. However Water would still be only 50% during a MB window so you'll still get a resist.

    The RUN ability Rayke reduces the elemental resistance level by 1 rank for each rune harbored by the user (The resistance lowered corresponds to the elemental of the rune, ignis will reduce fire resistance).
    Up to 3 runes can be harbored at a time, so up to 3 ranks can be lowered at a time (Duration 30 sec, 47 with 5 merits and Futhark Boots, recast 5 minutes).
    Therefore for resistance ranks as low as 30%, during the duration of Rayke's effect, they can be brought above 50% and eliminate the guaranteed resist.
    For instance, Ahriman's with their 30% Dark, they will always resist khaustra. However, while Rayke is in effect Dark resistance will be raised to 60% allowing a full damage hit.
    If it's within a MB window, it would allow even Yztargs with their 25% Stone to take full damage.

    The BLM 1H ability, Subtle Sorcery, does not reduce the enemy elemental resistance rank but increases the PC's magic accuracy in a special way that allows almost guaranteed full damage on elemental resistance ranks as low as 20%.
    The coppercap mentioned above becomes no problem, and even toads with their 20% Water will nearly always receive full damage.
    However once you reach the 10% level it suddenly becomes very difficult, if you tried to use it on Seiryu with it's 10% Wind, you'd be lucky to even get one full damage hit spamming Aero throughout the duration of the ability.
    So my slightly shortened interpretation is when they made it so that skillchains aren't resisted they need another stat reduce skillchain dmg by element and to choose them in the same fashion. This keeps referring to it as resistance but given we already have and use that term differently I think we should come up with another. Idk like elemental alignment or skillchain resistance.

    Similar to elemental resistances each mob has 1 of 15 varying values to each element that help determine which element a multi element skillchain will be but also directly modify dmg similar to how different resistance might but straight reduction instead of chance to. This was briefly explored in the testing done by Montenen (sorry forget spelling) after the update but never really expanded on

    Another effect of these elemental alignments is if they are 50% or lower the mob will have a 50% sdt to this value. Now SDTs were somewhat known but prior to this we didn't have a way of quantify how close they were to or that there was a threshold for them partly because we didn't really have ways of modifying it.

    Now the values can be changed somewhat. Now instead of things like the brd/nin spells to modify it's Rayke and skillchains. A skillchain will raise the alignment value by 1 during the MB window. This doesn't stack with multiple step skillchains it will just use the current one. Though multistep skillchains can have interesting effects on which elements get picked as the first skillchain can change priorities for the next one. And Rayke will raise the alignment value by 1 level per rune expended. This means yes Rayke can raise skillchain dmg and with the right elements 1 skillchain can raise the dmg of the next one and you can even temporarily remove SDTs with either but how much it takes will depend on mobs. Also it's not 100% clear but looks like they are saying Subtle Sorcery has an effect similar to raising alignment for spells casted by the that player by 5 ranks as well as a just large macc boost.

    Most the rest is examples and slight talk on how they determined the other stats they needed first. Namely they used enspell/blu 1k needles to determine mdt then swipes for mdb which is a valid way of testing each since obviously they'd effect magic dmg and need to be accounted for but are also nice info for us to have. And then there is a list of monsters with mdt, mdb, and elemental alignments listed some of them even listing different values for different versions or different difficulties. Some also have notes after them about it but gunna take awhile to go thru all that and that's really more mob specific data

    Something I don't see anything on is if the whole changing SDT threshold also works for debuff durations or for elemental sources of dmg that aren't the next step of a skillchain or MB like say an elemental ws. And given how Rayke also helps with the cumulative dmg reduction how that might factor in. Like will a skillchain also help somewhat. Also doesn't look like they specify if the SDT also applies to the skillchain on top of the elemental alignment modifier.. they actually term it as guaranteed at least half resist but given they also use an example of resist states going from 1/2 to 1/16 that looks just like normal resist states + sdt as there is no 1/16th resist

  2. #2
    Chram
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    Is it possible that the Skillchain resistance values have fixed proportions to actual elemental resistance?

    For example, let's stay that level 120 mobs have a base elemental resistance of 1000. Then, wouldn't it be possible that for each "tier" of skillchain modification, there's a specific and consistent modification for resistance corresponding? On a level 120 mob family that takes 115% fire from skillchains, then that might mean they have say, 950 fire resistance (-50 from default, or perhaps -5%).

  3. #3
    Ridill
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    The values for these though do seem to loosely follow known resistances so it seems plausible and I did read about some newer macc/meva testing including with elements awhile back so the connection may have been made or at least the data might be there but will take a bit more digging

  4. #4
    Chram
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    Edit: nevermind.

  5. #5
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    Holy hell, that site is a treasure trove of information @[email protected]

    Noticing some interesting notes in there, like Dazzling Dolores procs on Lightning MB damage.
    Or that Glassy Craver has 164 MDB and takes +50% H2H(被突?) dmg, Glassy Gorger has 214 MDB and takes +50% slashing dmg, and Glassy Thinker has 214 MDB and takes +50% blunt weapon dmg (被格打?). Not 100% sure on the two (?), but pretty sure both are blunt damage.

    Or that HTB mobs apparently have static MDB based on difficulty (at least all of the ones I've seen while browsing match up):
    Magical defense 150 (very friendly) 180 (easy) 280 (normal) 350 (difficult) 400 (very difficult)
    Found an exception already. XD AAEV HTB version has an extra MDB+20 per difficulty level

    Explanation of procs in Avatar HTBs! From the entry for Garuda. Don't think I've ever seen this in English:
    (WS is magic cut release with red weak point, magic is yellow weak point, remote cut is canceled, shrimp is additional damage reduction with blue weak point, pet special technique is white weak point and proximity cut release)
    Translating to English from GTrans, I'm pretty sure we get:
    WS / red proc = removes MDT reduction,
    magic / yellow proc = removes ranged(?) DT,
    Abilities / blue proc = additional damage reduction (think this is the avatar's AE)
    Pet abilities / white proc = removes melee PDT
    * Not all avatars have this info listed, and Leviathan has a different order for the proc effects, so not a blanket explanation...

  6. #6
    Ridill
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    Yeah tons of monster info that I'd hope to get onto here eventually. The avatar procs are actually on ffxiah but it's buried in some random thread and searching over there is terrible so not even sure I could find it

  7. #7
    Old Merits
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    *Eagerly awaits more discoveries!*

  8. #8
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    Kumhau's spikes can be dispelled w/ fire damage, and after they are dispelled, aura can be removed by WS from the back.
    Utkux is the same, but the amount of fire damage increases after each use. This pattern appears to apply to all WKR/Delve versions.

    Qiqirns are typically weak vs aero.

    Vir'ava: If Full Bloom eats a normal add, in addition to level up, it unlocks Beautiful Death. Will still use Beautiful Death at ~30% HP even if it's locked.
    When Full Bloom eats a black add, Vir'ava will be blue proc'd for eva down + locks out Frond Fatale.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Holy hell, that site is a treasure trove of information @[email protected]

    Noticing some interesting notes in there, like Dazzling Dolores procs on Lightning MB damage.
    Or that Glassy Craver has 164 MDB and takes +50% H2H(被突?) dmg, Glassy Gorger has 214 MDB and takes +50% slashing dmg, and Glassy Thinker has 214 MDB and takes +50% blunt weapon dmg (被格打?). Not 100% sure on the two (?), but pretty sure both are blunt damage.
    [...]
    Craver would be piercing damage, Thinker is blunt, yes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lepetit89 View Post
    Craver would be piercing damage, Thinker is blunt, yes.
    OK, GTrans kept spitting out "collision" which is why I figured it was H2H. ^^;; Either way, none of that is listed on the wiki here, so it's news to me. lol

  11. #11
    Ridill
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    I know you are super excited Nyarlko (and others) but it might be easier to parse/port to wiki to be a tad more organized and complete when porting info instead of random tidbits from random mobs.

    So like maybe something similar to how they have it organized

    Mob name
    MDT|MDB
    Elemental alignments

    Possible notes.

    And for notes possible links if only using GT since well GT isn't the greatest with game terms

    Then to the next mob. Possibly in some semblance of an order so we can see which ones have been brought over.

  12. #12
    Chram
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    Interesting note built off of this info:

    Using absorbs (3 resist states: full land, 1/2 duration, and full resist),

    Caturae (20% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb always lands with Dark Seal, but has 1/2 resist 100% of the time.
    Gallu (15% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb often (but not always) lands with Dark Seal, and when it does, has 1/2 duration.
    Dvergr (5% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb never lands, even with Dark Seal.

  13. #13
    Chram
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    Also, apparently AV and WoC's damage resistance is a flat -1% per 1% of lost HP (capping at -50%), and is independent of his bracelets.

  14. #14
    HABS SUCK!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Found an exception already. XD AAEV HTB version has an extra MDB+20 per difficulty level
    They probably all have some super buffed job traits, and whm has MDB trait. I'm pretty sure if they tried to quantify evasion, MR would have the same evasion boosts per level.

    I wonder if HM attacks any faster at higher difficulties? or GK's skillchain damage goes up at higher difficulties?

  15. #15
    i should really shut up
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    Whelp, wiki work

  16. #16
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Interesting note built off of this info:

    Using absorbs (3 resist states: full land, 1/2 duration, and full resist),

    Caturae (20% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb always lands with Dark Seal, but has 1/2 resist 100% of the time.
    Gallu (15% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb often (but not always) lands with Dark Seal, and when it does, has 1/2 duration.
    Dvergr (5% skillchain damage taken from dark): Absorb never lands, even with Dark Seal.
    The first cast sort of goes along with their under 60% gets 50% "resist" and answers my does it work with debuffs too. This makes it even more likely that is actually sdt and I'd imagine if you could manage to land it without dark seal you'd get some 1/4 durations.

    The other 2... do you get completely resist messages for absorbs?

  17. #17
    Chram
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    Absorbs don't have a 1/4 duration resist rate. You either get the full duration, half duration, or it doesn't land at all. I'm not sure how it corresponds to nuke resists, though, whether it's:

    (Columns are Nuke damage resist state > Absorb duration resist state)

    1 > 1
    1/2 > 1/2
    1/4 > 1/2
    1/8 > Full Resist

    or

    1 > 1
    1/2 > 1/2
    1/4 > Full Resist
    1/8 > Full Resist

    or

    1 > 1
    1/2 > 1
    1/4 > 1/2
    1/8 > Full Resist

    or even something really off the wall, like

    1 > 1
    1/2 > 1/2
    1/4 > 1/2 or Full Resist (random)
    1/8 > Full Resist

    No, you don't. It's possible that Dvergrs can be absorbed at some obscenely low rate, but I haven't seen even a half resist in dozens of casts with Dark Seal, and given that Dark Seal brings absorbs to 100% full success rate on mobs without significant dark resistance, I think it works differently than as just a huge MACC buff. The 5% mobs like Dvergrs are likely forcing a high enough resist that it translates to a complete resist for 3 state spells like absorbs; given the info in the first post, I think it's very likely that a DS Absorb would land on a Dvergr if we had a Rune Fencer use Rayke on it. Maybe I should go test.

  18. #18
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    Absorbs don't have a 1/4 duration resist rate. You either get the full duration, half duration, or it doesn't land at all. I'm not sure how it corresponds to nuke resists, though, whether it's:
    I think you missed like um everything before the 1/4 lol. Enfeebles don't have a 1/4 resist either but 1/2 resist + sdt = 1/4 duration. Nukes don't have a 1/16th resist but 1/8 resist + sdt = 1/16th dmg. The testing above actually talks about how <60% alignment gives you guaranteed 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16. They term it as automatic 1/2 resist but given it adds a state... so more of another term that operates similar to guaranteed 1/2 resist


    As far as the second part I meant both on these mobs but in general. Wasn't sure if absorbs were included in that since they are kind of a debuff and like stun is included but also kind of not. I was asking partly because this plus the jp testing here and my testing with sleep on skeletons may have some link in a sort of soft immunity

  19. #19
    Old Odin
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    I am amazed that still today new suff is found out in this game o.o

  20. #20
    Yoshi P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarlko View Post
    Explanation of procs in Avatar HTBs! From the entry for Garuda. Don't think I've ever seen this in English:

    Translating to English from GTrans, I'm pretty sure we get:
    WS / red proc = removes MDT reduction,
    magic / yellow proc = removes ranged(?) DT,
    Abilities / blue proc = additional damage reduction (think this is the avatar's AE)
    Pet abilities / white proc = removes melee PDT
    * Not all avatars have this info listed, and Leviathan has a different order for the proc effects, so not a blanket explanation...
    That doesn't seem right. Magic/yellow proc always reduced their PDT for me

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