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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seha View Post
    Uub is still an infant right? I wonder if he'll even be reintroduced in the future.
    In Super, yes. and he's already been referenced, so there's no doubt he'll be making another appearance

  2. #22
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    We still don't know if UUB is a full human, i mean he's still a reincarnation of Buu, who knows Yemma or someone else did something

  3. #23
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    If they're cyborgs, htf did they have kids? o_O

    EXPLAIN THIS CLIP THEN CS!!!



    And none of your IT WAS FILLER malarkey!!!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    If they're cyborgs, htf did they have kids? o_O

    EXPLAIN THIS CLIP THEN CS!!!



    And none of your IT WAS FILLER malarkey!!!
    But they got turned back into humans after Cell iirc from Krilins wish

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    If they're cyborgs, htf did they have kids? o_O

    EXPLAIN THIS CLIP THEN CS!!!



    And none of your IT WAS FILLER malarkey!!!
    Androids are machines.

    Cyborgs are originally humans that have cybernetic upgrades.

    Hence still having things like reproductive organs, etc.

    Translation error. They should have been called cyborg 17 and cyborg 18. 16 is an actual android

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatapa View Post
    But they got turned back into humans after Cell iirc from Krilins wish
    False. Dragon couldn't do it (because they were already humans to begin with; again just upgraded). So then when the dragon couldn't do it, he revised the wish to remove the explosive devices from their bodies

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    Androids are machines.

    Cyborgs are originally humans that have cybernetic upgrades.

    Hence still having things like reproductive organs, etc.

    Translation error. They should have been called cyborg 17 and cyborg 18. 16 is an actual android
    Okay, so I had my terms reversed, but it still supports my statement that they are originally humans and thus should be in contention for being strongest from the planet

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    Okay, so I had my terms reversed, but it still supports my statement that they are originally humans and thus should be in contention for being strongest from the planet
    I already addressed that. Their strength is completely from Gero's science, not from their human capabilities.

    That said, I'm not going to count them just based on the fact they weren't even martial artists when they were operated on. Their power is pretty much completely from the robotics portion. Even 17 now in Super who's much stronger, it's due to the not running out of energy which isn't the human trait but Dr. Gero's given trait. He can just train all he wants and never get tired/have to rest or take a break.
    The strength they have is from their inhuman privilege.

    I mean Gohan, Trunks etc. get all their strength from their Saiyan portion. It'd be like counting future trunks (super) as the strongest human if we're gonna count the androids

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    I already addressed that. Their strength is completely from Gero's science, not from their human capabilities.
    Still human bro. Enhancements or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    Still human bro. Enhancements or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    eh, they're not full human though. If non full humans count. Then I'm nominating Future Trunks as strongest human

  11. #31
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    But that's human ingenuity vs different-species breeding. Totally different

    The Cyborgs are a result of human capabilities enhancing other human traits. So them being the strongest humans is arguable because their strength is a direct result of human ability. Trunks is a result of a lonely earth girl getting hot and heavy with a space doode.

    Edit: I was going to try and fit in a eugenics joke for Trunks but I just couldn't bring it full circle.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    But that's human ingenuity vs different-species breeding. Totally different

    The Cyborgs are a result of human capabilities enhancing other human traits. So them being the strongest humans is arguable because their strength is a direct result of human ability. Trunks is a result of a lonely earth girl getting hot and heavy with a space doode.

    Edit: I was going to try and fit in a eugenics joke for Trunks but I just couldn't bring it full circle.
    infinite energy, not needing to eat or drink are not human capabilities. They have downright inhuman upgrades; and those are what make them strong; not their human components. Their strength is a result of Gero's machine/biomechanics, not their organic human capabilities

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    infinite energy, not needing to eat or drink are not human capabilities. They have downright inhuman upgrades; and those are what make them strong; not their human components. Their strength is a result of Gero's machine/biomechanics, not their organic human capabilities
    Yes, but that strength was a direct result of human mental capacity for development. So while the physical results can be considered inhuman (because compared to regular human physicality they're totally off the charts), reaching those results in the first place was because of the human's mental capabilities to overcome their physical limitations. Just because Gero was the one who enhanced them shouldn't be an argument because he used his brain to do it. We're saying Krillin is strong, but he was trained by Roshi and enhanced by that big fucking Namekian and etc, etc. He wouldn't be nearly as strong as he his without intervention from other people.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    Yes, but that strength was a direct result of human mental capacity for development. So while the physical results can be considered inhuman (because compared to regular human physicality they're totally off the charts), reaching those results in the first place was because of the human's mental capabilities to overcome their physical limitations. Just because Gero was the one who enhanced them shouldn't be an argument because he used his brain to do it. We're saying Krillin is strong, but he was trained by Roshi and enhanced by that big fucking Namekian and etc, etc. He wouldn't be nearly as strong as he his without intervention from other people.
    But he's still physically human. I'm not talking about mentally. You could put Krillin's brain in Goku's body and he's still going to have access to Saiyan shit.

    I'll just put it this way, in one of Toriyama's interviews around the Cell Sagaish, he referred to Krililn as the strongest human. If he himself counted 17 or 18 as a human, he would have said one of them instead. (and 18 is mentioned in this interview when he talks about their relationship)

    reaching those results in the first place was because of the human's mental capabilities to overcome their physical limitations.
    17/18 didn't/weren't known to train. They were kidnapped and upgraded. Their initial upgrade was directly to the ssj1+ level. This wasn't due to anything they did mentally or as humans. That was the default level of strength given to them by Gero.

  15. #35
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    Toei has updated their website's profiles, for anyone that can read Japanese or wants to brute force it with a translator:

    http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/chara/chapter4/

    Of note, someone translated Jiren's profile, and it has this in it: "His true power is said to be at the level of the gods of destruction."

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    17/18 didn't/weren't known to train. They were kidnapped and upgraded. Their initial upgrade was directly to the ssj1+ level. This wasn't due to anything they did mentally or as humans. That was the default level of strength given to them by Gero.
    My counter argument to this is that Krillin's strength was given to him by other people too. Whether through training guidance or holding his head and 'unlocking his hidden potential'. The methods are different, one is science and human ingenuity based, the other is... DBZ+martial arts based, but the results are the same, increased strength.

    Truth be told, this is a joke that got a little out of hand. So I'm going to go make myself some dinner before work now.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    My counter argument to this is that Krillin's strength was given to him by other people too. Whether through training guidance or holding his head and 'unlocking his hidden potential'. The methods are different, one is science and human ingenuity based, the other is... DBZ+martial arts based, but the results are the same, increased strength.

    Truth be told, this is a joke that got a little out of hand. So I'm going to go make myself some dinner before work now.
    It's still the strength/capacity of Krillin.

    With 17 and 18, it's the strength/capacity of the parts they were fitted with (as they weren't just metal. They were organic bio-mechanical in nature
    Spoiler: show
    The bio-mechanical enhancements are organic substances patterned after human cells


    Their strength is the capacity of those organic substances, not the capacity of human strength.

    and enjoy foods

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaspinne View Post
    My counter argument to this is that Krillin's strength was given to him by other people too. Whether through training guidance or holding his head and 'unlocking his hidden potential'. The methods are different, one is science and human ingenuity based, the other is... DBZ+martial arts based, but the results are the same, increased strength.

    Truth be told, this is a joke that got a little out of hand. So I'm going to go make myself some dinner before work now.
    None of those training sessions or potential unlocks changed Krillin's genetic makeup or his cells, so he's still fully human. On the other hand, 18 and 17 had their bodies transformed down at the cellular level into something that was part machine. Even the wish that tried to turn them human shows that they're not fully human anymore, since turning a human into a human is meaningless.

  19. #39
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    I think the best way to summarize this is that my argument is that since 17 and 18 started off human and were strengthened directly as a result of pure human intervention (with the use of human developed technology) that they should still be in contention for strongest human on earth.

    Where as your arguments are that because those enhancements aren’t natural, they shouldn’t be included. Which at some point all the Earth fighters underwent some unnatural to earth form of training (King Kai’s planet, namekian power boost, etc)

    At this point I think it’s best we just agree to disagree

  20. #40
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    But you're disagreeing with the show itself. They state that they aren't human. There's agreeing to disagree, and then there's being stubborn lol.

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