Dragonball Z/Super (2015) TOP and Beyond (109+) II

[Korietsu]

I knew the Kienzan-hexastrike wasn't going to work but there was a second there where it was so awesome I believed it did.

Another case of goku not finishing the fight. Woulda been great if he IT'd Kamehameha'd him after the kick and just ate the L, and Jeets and Gohan got to pick up the slack.

They're Saiyans. They're consistently getting a bit stronger with their forms aren't they? Or are they not since it's 'god energy'.. I'm not sure how all that works as that's generally super inconsistent. Either way.. plot device, etc.

Zenkai boosts aren't really a thing more in the traditional sense of massive power level increases. But they've sure made a show of Saiyans getting way better after getting their ass kicked in a technical fight sense.

[Myrrh_Quetz]

Also, I fucking HATE that Toppo did a cunting Dab.

[Khajit]

I read the gotenks vs Buu fight the other day and I'm surprised that Gotenks of all fucking people is by far the most skilled with Ki use. Goku's land mines are just barely baby steps towards the ghosts Gotenks made up in a fairly short time within the room. He also fashioned Ki rings out of thin air instead of the normal firing from the body.

Dude is fucking pants on head retarded... he doesn't know about fucking kissing for gods sakes. He's just literally a power house fighter. But when it comes to shit like parenting or being a husband. He's frigin 5.

It's been pointed out elsewhere that Goku might simply have not have known what the word kiss meant. Everyone keeps on forgetting that his childhood consisted of being alone in the woods AND he's superhuman so it's reasonable he has major gaps in common sense. He had to have what marriage even was explained to him in the first place because he thought it was a type of food.
Eg
Goku: eew what are they doing
Vegeta: That's a kiss, you don't do that with chichi?
Goku thinks Vegeta is referring to vomiting food into Chichi's mouth like a mother bird
Goku: eww that's gross
Vegeta: ....

Another alternative is possible when you consider that Chichi's native family/culture is basically ultra traditional conservative chinese hick and her mom is dead Traditionally the mother would explain that sort of stuff and her dad would find it too awkward to explain so Chichi doesn't really have anyone to tell her anything as she lives/lived in a remote region miles away from civilization.
Then factor in that only 46% of human cultures even kiss and you have a recipe for neither of them knowing anything about what to do while there is no inherent reason that they'd naturally learn to do so independently.

As for Goku being a shit dad meme that everyone likes to repeat? He lived alone in the woods. Then he basically fought miniature wars solo and lived with a perverted old man on an island until he was an adult. If anything it's a miracle that he came out as good a father as he did since he didn't volunteer Gohan for shit until Cell and was willing to outright die in order to protect him from Raditz and Cell.
Even his biggest fuckup could have easily been prevented if anyone actually TOLD Goku that Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting. It took him all of half a second to realize he screwed up after that. Goku's problems with parenting seem to stem more from all these people that have known him for 20+ years not considering that Goku might need you to explain something to him than any actual malice or neglect.

[Deftscythe]

Also, I fucking HATE that Toppo did a cunting Dab.

It's just a sentai pose. I'd be surprised if JPs even know about dabbing.

[Myrrh_Quetz]

I read the gotenks vs Buu fight the other day and I'm surprised that Gotenks of all fucking people is by far the most skilled with Ki use. Goku's land mines are just barely baby steps towards the ghosts Gotenks made up in a fairly short time within the room. He also fashioned Ki rings out of thin air instead of the normal firing from the body.


It's been pointed out elsewhere that Goku might simply have not have known what the word kiss meant. Everyone keeps on forgetting that his childhood consisted of being alone in the woods AND he's superhuman so it's reasonable he has major gaps in common sense. He had to have what marriage even was explained to him in the first place because he thought it was a type of food.
Eg
Goku: eew what are they doing
Vegeta: That's a kiss, you don't do that with chichi?
Goku thinks Vegeta is referring to vomiting food into Chichi's mouth like a mother bird
Goku: eww that's gross
Vegeta: ....

Another alternative is possible when you consider that Chichi's native family/culture is basically ultra traditional conservative chinese hick and her mom is dead Traditionally the mother would explain that sort of stuff and her dad would find it too awkward to explain so Chichi doesn't really have anyone to tell her anything as she lives/lived in a remote region miles away from civilization.
Then factor in that only 46% of human cultures even kiss and you have a recipe for neither of them knowing anything about what to do while there is no inherent reason that they'd naturally learn to do so independently.

As for Goku being a shit dad meme that everyone likes to repeat? He lived alone in the woods. Then he basically fought miniature wars solo and lived with a perverted old man on an island until he was an adult. If anything it's a miracle that he came out as good a father as he did since he didn't volunteer Gohan for shit until Cell and was willing to outright die in order to protect him from Raditz and Cell.
Even his biggest fuckup could have easily been prevented if anyone actually TOLD Goku that Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting. It took him all of half a second to realize he screwed up after that. Goku's problems with parenting seem to stem more from all these people that have known him for 20+ years not considering that Goku might need you to explain something to him than any actual malice or neglect.

Here's the problem with that kind of over analyzing. By the same regard. Piccolo was straight up evil at the start of Z and did a better job growing and being more of a father figure to Gohan. Hell, Geets is a better dad than Goku. No matter what kind of childhood he had, he had some 14ish(Not adding in the 7 or so years he was dead and decided to not talk to his wife or kid until a fucking fight came into the mix) years of being a parent and seeing Bulma raise Trucks. Goku has been and always will be a shit dad.

Thinking about it. The best example is this. Geets was willing to miss out on the ToP just to witness his daughter being born. Geets was willing to risk everything just so he can have that memory of seeing his wife shit out a kid. Goku didn't even check in or take a psychic peak when Chichi shat out Goten.

[Lucavi]

Also, I fucking HATE that Toppo did a cunting Dab.

That Sentai pose has been around longer than many of the parents of the kids who dab.

[Khajit]

Here's the problem with that kind of over analyzing. By the same regard. Piccolo was straight up evil at the start of Z and did a better job growing and being more of a father figure to Gohan. Hell, Geets is a better dad than Goku. No matter what kind of childhood he had, he had some 14ish(Not adding in the 7 or so years he was dead and decided to not talk to his wife or kid until a fucking fight came into the mix) years of being a parent and seeing Bulma raise Trucks. Goku has been and always will be a shit dad.

Thinking about it. The best example is this. Geets was willing to miss out on the ToP just to witness his daughter being born. Geets was willing to risk everything just so he can have that memory of seeing his wife shit out a kid. Goku didn't even check in or take a psychic peak when Chichi shat out Goten.

Ah yes. Piccolo giving Gohan a blanket after he kidnapped him and purposefully dropped him into a monster infested wilderness for his world domination plan makes him the best father ever. Nevermind that Gohan hadn't experienced those things before (proving Goku did the fairly standard thing of not dropping his kid in the wilderness) and was clearly attached to Goku at the start of Z. Goku clearly couldn't have actually been doing a decent job at fatherhood before Raditz showed up. I hope you're not referencing Piccolo eventually trying to protect Gohan as the example of him being better since Goku died doing that TWICE.

As for Vegeta. Vegeta being a good father by the time Bra comes about doesn't automatically mean Goku is bad at fatherhood. I also don't know why you used the absolutely stupidest example you could to proclaim Vegeta is great at it. Oh, I don't want to miss my daughter's birth so i'll let her and the rest of her/my family get eradicated from existence before she's even probably born due to my refusal to protect them. That's some great logic right there that tops even Goku's attempt to let Gohan defeat Cell.

At least Goku has some logic to most of his decisions. Becoming Super saiyan gives him the urge to fight everything so him staying away until he's able to control it instead of idk attacking his friends and family to sate the bloodlust that comes from being one is a reasonable idea. Cell Saga? He knows he's going to get old/die eventually and he can't be the only one able to protect everyone. Future trunks even stands there as proof that he can't just let himself do everything because once he dies it'll all go to shit. So he figured Gohan would be the perfect replacement after some training since Vegeta is just some jobber. Buu Saga? By this point he thinks that everything weird/dangerous just naturally steers itself towards him. Not contacting Chichi is more like protecting them in that perspective. Then when he breaks down and actually visits his family/friends for one day? Majin Motherfucking Buu shows up.

[DrClout]

Team Majin was already there though bruh. It was gonna happen with or without Goku. See also DBS Future Trunks arc

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[Khajit]

Sure, but from Goku's perspective it was just a nigh unstoppable ancient evil showing up around the instant that he did. I think the only reason he even came back in Super(aside from meta reasons like $$$) is that Beerus demonstrated that this sort of stuff is still going to come to him and everyone else even if he's dead.

[Eurell]

His 11 year old son would be the perfect replacement to fight demons and gods and robots and protect the world! Shitty dad.

Not contacting Chichi was protecting people? The fuck outta here lol

How about that time he found Uub and he's like, well, off to live with this kid! Good bye family!

@lol at Gohan never being in the wilderness before Piccolo. His literal introduction scene is being a 4yo lost in the woods.

[Eurell]

Goku is a great character. And he has saved the world and everyone on it tons. But he's a shitty husband and father. That's OK though lol

[Xno Kappa]

Where was it ever insinuated Goku stayed away from his family and friends after becoming SSJ and escaping Namek to protect them from himself?

[Elcura]

Where was it ever insinuated Goku stayed away from his family and friends after becoming SSJ and escaping Namek to protect them from himself?

I can't say I ever remember that being a thing. Since you know...that would require decent thoughts and reactions from everyone else which isn't what DBZ is about. I think the only time they mention characters being a danger to everyone else is Oozaru.

I guess if you count that one time Goku told Gohan sternly to get on the ship then maybe?

[Shenrien]

finally!

I was looking for this shit last night before ending my day.

[Inshiya]

Going back to the topic of Vegeta's power up: I like it, but felt it was poorly presented. For Goku's UI, and any other major transformation in the series, the episode focused on the person transforming, and then showed you just how powerful the transformation was. This was a Goku episode (and honestly that tricky hexa-disk move should have knocked off Jiren). We barely saw anything of Vegeta, beyond him just doing a quick power up, a "oh he's broken through his shell too", and then him fighting alongside Goku for a bit.

[Myrrh_Quetz]

I just rewatched the whole Buu saga. When Gohan tells Bulma that Videl blackmailed him into the tournament, that’s Goku chimes in. Gohan then comments about how long it’s been and so on. That’s proof right there. And I never said Geets or picollo is a great dad. I said “Better than Goku”. I mean. Shit the only great parent is krillin.

And how is the Bra example a bad example for parental character devolpment for a character like Vegeta? To go from only caring about getting stronger to wanting to see his kid be born is amazing.

And ya. We are over analyzing the show but fuck. We are nerds. It’s what we do.

[Xno Kappa]

Going back to the topic of Vegeta's power up: I like it, but felt it was poorly presented. For Goku's UI, and any other major transformation in the series, the episode focused on the person transforming, and then showed you just how powerful the transformation was. This was a Goku episode (and honestly that tricky hexa-disk move should have knocked off Jiren). We barely saw anything of Vegeta, beyond him just doing a quick power up, a "oh he's broken through his shell too", and then him fighting alongside Goku for a bit.

This is exactly how I feel.

[The Stig]

Yeah I felt Vegeta was like a Wii, then he transformed a little and became Wii U lol

[DrClout]

So disrespectful fam lol

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[Elcura]

I'd say Wii U to Switch was better, since the Wii was actually a success.

Though in that sense Vegeta's progression kinda does follow that.