Dragonball Z/Super (2015) TOP and Beyond (109+) II

[Boyiee]

Goku was acting a lot like when cell went final form, squeezing his hands and feeling it out.

[Virg]

Vegeta still hasn't gone all out and shown us his new form from his time in the hyperbolic time chamber before the tourney

He was suspiciously calm while witnessing Goku´s new form aswell as after the fight. Usually he´s all "Kakarottooooo yualwaysstrongerthanmeh!?". Not this time though. Basically no real reaction besides slight interest. Makes me think he has something up his sleeve.

[Salodin]

Makes me think he has a different trick entirely, because I truly believe Vegeta is gonna get love this series but he'll never get love if all they give him are Goku's hand me down powerups.

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[Vaspinne]

God let's hope so. Scrub status Vegeta is awful

[Obsidian]

Has it been explicitly stated that the winner can't use the super dragon balls to bring back the erased universes?

Because if that hasn't been banned it'll definitely be what happens.

[Tymon]

Has it been explicitly stated that the winner can't use the super dragon balls to bring back the erased universes?

Because if that hasn't been banned it'll definitely be what happens.

That'll probably be the catalyst for El Grande Padre to step in and turn heel for Goku and Jiren to team up against.

[Salodin]

The wish will be for the King of All to be destroyed, snuck in by Frieza after they think he's there to wish himself back to life.

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[Vaspinne]

The wish will be for the King of All to be destroyed, snuck in by Frieza after they think he's there to wish himself back to life.

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Can't he just use regular ole' dragonballs for this?

That being said, Goku is a stupid man-child, so I wouldn't be surprised of he let Frieza sneak in and let this happen.

[Salodin]

Dragonballs have limits, based on their size apparently. Super Dragon Balls can apparently grant any wish, Earth ones are pretty gimp at this point.

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[Vaspinne]

Er.. I should have specified that I meant they could just use regular balls for his life being restored, but Goku would be too stupid to realize that and let him freely wish for something with the Super balls

[Dantrag]

I don't know if it was in a movie, but the Dragon can't kill anyone stronger than him, correct?

[Vaspinne]

I don't know if it was in a movie, but the Dragon can't kill anyone stronger than him, correct?

Yeah, he shit his Dragon pants when Beerus/Whis showed up

[Cream Soda]

Just theory crafting, but I'm going to put Jiren > Merged Zamasu but < Vejito blue.

Jiren basically been toying with Goku; but Merged Zamasu >>>> Goku and Vejito was toying w/ him.

Not to mention that Trunks genki dama sword only had Goku/Vegeta's power since Earth's population was near non existent; so the spirit bomb Jiren stopped should have been a good deal stronger than the one that cut Merged Zamasu in half.

Considering fusion is literally X times Y though, if Jiren is stronger than Goku x Vegeta (multiplicative), he could solo the entire ToP w/o a scratch

[Fwahm]

Fusion isn't literal multiplication in Super (and I doubt it ever was, given the ridiculous math that would create even with fairly crappy participants).

Based on his fight with Merged Zamasu, where SSB Vegito was either even with him or had a slight edge, Vegito is definitely significantly weaker than Jiren unless he uses high stacks of Kaioken or Goku's new form. Unfortunetly, with the potara retcon, he'd have an even shorter duration than he did against Zamasu because of his higher power.

Considering Jiren is at minimum 50+ times as strong as SSB Goku, of which there's only like two other known fighters that might be stronger than that (Toppo, maybe Hit, maaaaybe Kale), I have absolutely zero doubt that Jiren could effortlessly solo everyone else simultanously if he actually tried.

[Cream Soda]

Fusion isn't literal multiplication in Super (and I doubt it ever was, given the ridiculous math that would create even with fairly crappy participants).

It was stated in official supplemental information (Daizenshuu; official dragon ball encyclopedia)

I say the info doesn't make any sense at all; other than "power levels are bullshit" but officially speaking, that's what we have and nothing to contest it.

Though I did some math, that makes Saiyan Saga Vejito stronger than Frieza and slightly weaker than ssj1 Goku in the Namek saga. (120m, 144m, 150m respectively and if Vejito used even base level Kaioken, 288million)

They really weren't thinking when they released that shit lol

[Fwahm]

I've seen that page, and I'm nearly certain that they meant multiply in the figurative sense, as the Japanese often describe such things in, not the mathematical sense.

IIRC, even if it was meant to be literal, for the original Japanese wording used, something like (A + B) x C, where A and B are the people fusing and C is a static multiplier, would also fit the wording.

[Cream Soda]

I've seen that page, and I'm nearly certain that they meant multiply in the figurative sense, as the Japanese often describe such things in, not the mathematical sense.

IIRC, even if it was meant to be literal, for the original Japanese wording used, something like (A + B) x C, where A and B are the people fusing and C is a static multiplier, would also fit the wording.

I mean even if they meant it literally, it wouldn't be the first time answers just get bullshitted.

For example, Toriyama went on to state that Goten/Trunks didn't have tails because they're a recessive trait (he actually just got tired of drawing tails). If tails were recessive, it wouldn't be possible for Gohan to have been born with one

[Shenrien]

I'm almost positive it wasn't he was tired of drawing tails but that he just forgot entirely about it.

[Cream Soda]

I'm almost positive it wasn't he was tired of drawing tails but that he just forgot entirely about it.

Those are just fan rumors. He didn't state it as the reason; but he has gone on to say he outright got tired of drawing them. Took a lot of effort, etc.

[Seha]

The wish will be for the King of All to be destroyed, snuck in by Frieza after they think he's there to wish himself back to life.

I don't think anyone can "steal" a wish with this dragon as the last time we saw him it required some sort of god language and Whis had to be the one asking for Beerus as they were trippin inside its stomach.