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  1. #1
    i should really shut up
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Asura

    Revenge of the RQT: DRG dickswinging

    For anyone unfamiliar with the last month on FFXIAH.com. There has been a particular user causing havoc in the DRG thread. They were recently topic banned which may just save the future of that DRG thread. However, there was quite a bit of damage done, misinformation spread, and so on.

    I don’t see this as having a dog in the fight for being attacked in a place where I can’t respond. However, I do see it as somewhat of an obligation to set the record straight and represent a ridiculous amount of work that I have put into the DRG guide.

    No, I don’t worry about my credibility, but above all distaste is what motivates me. So when I see someone being pants on head retarded and poisoning the well of information then that is already bad enough. When they drag me into it then all bets are of.

    Specifically things like:

    Quote Originally Posted by Katriina on FFXIAH.com
    Spicy wrote the guide ==> Spicy must update it in accordance with findings and discussions here or any other platform to ensure transparency without any narrative/feelings or other biases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
    The only issue I found and started the debate and Austar made the simulation (which I'm thankful for) was because of Rho Description

    If you think these statements highlighted over and over are okay then you are helping with misinformation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
    No, what I'm implying that you shouldn't even have this up on any Guide at all because you can literally make this weapon while afk and do ambuscade for 15 months.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
    Misinforming everyone based on Cost is ridiculous and serious DRGs will have both anyway so good luck with changing their minds.

    And 50 Vit counts ffs in survivability and taking less criticals from enemies... are they high?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat.....
    Hypothesis:

    Skillchains are erratic in nature and get affected by many factors.
    Problem: Isolate Skillchains to check the performance of Rho vs Trish.

    Methodology: introduce stabilizers to isolate this erratic element.

    SD>Cam>Drake>Cam>CAM

    60% stable with fixed TP return and a constant curve.
    While I am at it, on a related note:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothoro
    Spicy: your guide is amazing by the way. But I do feel that it is misguided to say that "you should only make Rhon if you can't get Trishula." What people spend their gil and time on is up to them.

    It's perfectly reasonable to state that Rhon is a poor time investment. Spicy does this. But he goes too far when he starts saying "Rhon should be only made if you can't get Trishula".
    Me going too far in this case would be like a lay telling you that you were too deep. It simply didn’t happen. That joke probably crossed a few lines though.

    So thank you too Lothoro for that thoughtful suggestion. That I should become the beacon in the night who recommends people make an inferior weapon. One which costs them tons of money and time they could use for something more meaningful. Such as charging a USB powered Pet Rock, extreme ironing (look it up), or watching reruns of The Nanny. You know, since I previously [i]did[/d] recommend Rhong before discovering that there isn’t a real situation it shines in at all, at best.

    Now, seeing users come in and literally thank Kat for their “research” into Rhong was beyond the final straw. Such disregard for critical thinking and reason is abhorrent.

    The list of things goes on. Yet, a couple of random people thanked them as others tried to correct them for over a month. All the while Kat just dug in and kept trying every possible angle to justify what became known as a completely partial way of thinking towards their own desires. Kat wanted Rhong to be the best weapon, and stopped at nothing to achieve that. Something slightly insane about that. Rhong-ziety

    However, I think that fulfills almost all of my bashing quota in response for the last month. Let me show everyone how I came to the conclusions that I did about Rhong through discussion with various and well known people through the use of the spreadsheet and simulator.

    So yes, for few weekends (and extensively on my own aside from that) Austar and I were trying to both vet Rhong independently, and report our results and ideas to each other. Half of this was in response to "Kat is so retarded" messages, and the other half a genuine curiosity. Honestly, we both went above and beyond what is remotely reasonable. I just decided to run it all AGAIN to post and put this all to bed.

    Results:
    Spoiler: show

    Augs throughout this:
    Valorous DA WS augs: str+15, acc/atk+25, DA +4
    Valorous DA TP augs: str +7, acc/atk +15, DA +5
    Valorous STP augs: str +7, acc/atk +15, STP+8
    Valorous WSD: str +10, acc/atk +25, WSD +4

    These augs and gearsets were kept consistent between the spreadsheet and the simulator.

    Food: Red Curry Bun +1

    Buffs: SV Honor/blade/min 5/no fourth song

    Bolster Frailty, Fury, Percision, Torpor

    Haste II, Boost STR, Escha Buffs x1,

    Dia III, Angon, Distract III all on

    No Rolls

    TP Gear:

    Trish/utu/ginsen
    Flamma +2/anu/brutal/sherida
    Valorous STP/acro STP/niq/petrov
    Brig dex+da/ioskeha +1/valorous stp/flamma +2

    Rhong/utu/focal orb
    Flamma +2/ganesha/brutal/sherida
    Dagon/flamma +2/niq/petrov
    Brig dex+da/ioskeha +1/valorous DA/flamma +2

    Stardiver Gear:

    Trish/utu/knob
    Flamma +2/fotia/moonshade/sherida
    Dagon/sulevia +2/niq/regal
    Brig str+da/fotia/valorous/flamma +2

    Camlanns Gear:

    Rhong/utu/knob
    Valor/fotia/ishvara/sherida
    Valour/valor/niq/karieyh +1
    Brig str+wsd/fotia/vishap +3/sulevia


    100 WoCs:

    No Rolls.

    Trishula White Damage: ~19% (WS Damage): ~81%
    • 4,557.42 (20,688.143)
    • 4,643.78 (20,962.93)
    • 4,802.76 (21,601.802)
    • 4,800.44 (21,515.317)
    • 4,646.16 (21,246.341)
    • 4,862.51 (21,840.159)
    • 4,683.94 (21,448.365)
    • 4,782.24 (21,484.848)
    • 4,684.17 (21,396.54)
    • 4,641.71 (21,254.207)
    Range: 305.09 damage between high and low

    Rhong White Damage: ~43% (WS Damage): ~57%
    • 4,948.69 (17,513.134)
    • 4,986.34 (17,960.682)
    • 4,854.98 (17,162.058)
    • 4,711.41 (17,043.537)
    • 4,936.67 (17,405.844)
    • 4,871.03 (17,140.189)
    • 4,816.43 (17,298.169)
    • 4,842.51 (16,971.211)
    • 4,812.44 (17,280.438)
    • 4,750.57 (16,719.847)
    Range: 274.93 damage between high and low

    Hundred 3 Minute Averages in Sim: Trish: 4,710.513 Rhong: 4,853.107 // 2.94% lead for Rhong

    Spreadsheet Set DPS: 5261.111 to 5038.706 // 4.41% lead for Rhong
    Spreadsheet WSAvg: Rhong 19,036 Trish 23,115

    With Rolls.

    Add SAM and Fighters at 11, +7, no job bonus, TP Set changes:

    Trish/utu/ginsen
    Flamma +2/ganesha/brutal/sherida
    Valorous STP/sulevia +2/niqmaddu/petrov
    Brig dex+da/ioskeha +1/valor STP/flamma +2

    Rhong/utu/focal orb
    Flamma +2/ganesha/brutal/sherida
    Dagon/flamma +2/niq/petrov
    Brig dex+da/ioskeha +1/valor DA/flamma +2

    WS sets remains the same

    Trish White Damage: ~13% (WS Damage) ~87%
    • 6,311.68 (22,626.038)
    • 6,343.62 (22,875.552)
    • 6,479.08 (23,050.873)
    • 6,518.72 (22,944.781)
    • 6,545.62 (22,709.073)
    • 6,396.8 (22,682.688)
    • 6,536.97 (23,121.699)
    • 6,330.51 (22,301.505)
    • 6,416.59 (22,694.784)
    • 6,430.27 (22,762.092)
    Range:233.94 damage between high and low

    Rhong White Damage: ~33% (WS Damage): ~67 %
    • 6,185.46 (20,129.793)
    • 6,123.82 (20,240.944)
    • 6,291.58 (20,451.498)
    • 6,140.2 (20,031.435)
    • 6,052.92 (19,920.924)
    • 6,117.02 (20,055.134)
    • 6,126.51 (20,176.082)
    • 6,201.88 (19,988.402)
    • 6,116.39 (20,258.128)
    • 6,105.79 (20,003.617)
    Range:238.66 damage between high and low

    Hundred 3 Minute Averages in Sim: Rhong 6,146.157 Trish 6,430.986 // 4.43% lead for Trish without even including skillchains, and with no need to maintain AM3.

    Spreadsheet Set DPS: Rhong 6564.873 Trish 6398.622 // 2.59% lead for Rhong
    Spreadsheet WSAvg: Rhong 23,019 Trish 27,813

    For funsies I added a valor body with QA+3 and a pair of hose with QA +3 to the spreadsheet. These lost the STR augment because you likely wont have it with such an augment. The body only added 0.37% to Rhongs DPS. The legs added 0.52%.

    When added to Trish’s set the lead for Rhong was only 2.85%. So QA augments don’t really mean shit for Rhong, ~+0.26%. Adding QA to other pieces wouldn’t serve as much of a gain (if not just a loss even) most likely so I didn’t even bother.

    100 Kouryus

    No Rolls


    Done averaging 100 WSs together for this, as it doesn’t even matter really.
    Trish White Damage: ~18% (WS Damage) ~82%
    • 4,647.6
    • 4,752.22
    • 4,703.46
    • 4,721.91
    • 4,683.94
    • 4,603.6
    • 4,533.71
    • 4,487.19
    • 4,579.31
    • 4,697.02

    Rhong White Damage: ~43% (WS Damage) ~57%
    • 4,762.84
    • 4,748.56
    • 4,834.49
    • 4,769.66
    • 4,898.98
    • 4,740.51
    • 4,824.34
    • 4,848.38
    • 4,946.43
    • 4,824.46

    Hundred 3 Minute Averages in Sim: Trish: 4,697.02 Rhong: 4,819.865 // 2.55% lead for Rhong

    Spreadsheet Set DPS: 5216.679 to 5002.736 // 4.27% lead for Rhong


    With Rolls.

    TP Set changes remain the same as before.

    Trish White Damage: ~13% (WS Damage) ~87%
    • 6,253.05
    • 6,453.71
    • 6,503.32
    • 6,312.89
    • 6,396.91
    • 6,448.26
    • 6,466.53
    • 6,290.12
    • 6,351.79
    • 6,345.11

    Rhong White Damage: ~33% (WS Damage): ~67 %
    • 6,126.59
    • 5,940.12
    • 6,023.14
    • 6,082.6
    • 6,150.31
    • 6,005.53
    • 6,090.89
    • 6,114.69
    • 6,092.42
    • 6,137.95

    Hundred 3 Minute Averages in Sim: Trish: 6382.169 Rhong: 6076.424 // 4.8% lead for Trish

    Spreadsheet Set DPS: 6510.934 to 6349.028 // 2.55% lead for Rhong


    Notes and Conclusions:
    • Gear is temperamental. It is entirely possible with your gear that Trish beats Rhong regardless. I have seen these results in the sim plenty of times before playing around vetting Rhong in the past.
    • Breaths were set in the spreadsheet at a minimum every time, meaning they do 380 damage instead of 1,046. Even on high end content they will get higher than this occasionally, meaning more to Trish. Don’t worry this is absolutely negligible for comparing the two.

      Just note that this is added to the spreadsheet's WS damage. This along with the rounds over likely make up the difference in WS damage between the sheet and sim.
    • The simulator doesn’t factor breaths.
    • Double vorseals alone takes off about half a percent of Rhong’s on paper lead. Adloqium, Crystal Blessing, Crooked with a job bonus on either SAM or Fighters, etc all chip away at Rhong too.
    • The biggest “lead” for Rhong is in an unlikely situation. Where you are fighting a mob with capped accuracy, attack, and haste, but no other buffs in a three minute fight starting at 3,000 TP and maintaining AM3.

      If this was an apex mob or Eschan NM, then you’d be SCing anyway in which the win easily goes to Trish. Even then AM3 ticks down out of combat while changing targets on fodder and certain events.

      The only way to try take SCs from Trish is to reduce frequency via a crowded alliance with a melee slugfest. These zergs only happen in endgame, and typically always come with COR (or even SMN) buffs, either via a player or one of peoples many mules. Most groups don’t take an alliance of DDs to fight things though. So once again, unlikely Rhong’s niche is ever realized, and even when it is it still should lose almost every time to Trish.

      The only other serious reach that comes to mind would be if you maintained AM3 while being frequently amnesiaed. Also doesn’t really happen, and you likely wouldn’t be maintaining AM3 anyway if it were. So, big whoop.
    • You can WS faster than .815 seconds after gaining 1k+ TP in zergs. It isn’t hard to hit your WS button prematurely as you are getting TP in order to WS faster. WSing in 0.4075 seconds after getting TP gains Trish over a full percent in DPS compared to Rhong. It may seem fast, but it happens regularly.

      Still, the TP over rounds in the sheet was kept above the average human reaction time to benefit Rhong. I mean the world is against Rhong so if it is getting decided on once and for all lets give it leeway for the benefit of the doubt.
    • SCs happen in endgame fights and zergs even if you don’t try to make them happen. This easily would erase even a larger difference between the weapons in favor of Trish. You would have to go somewhere over around a couple dozen and a half WSs in a row without SCing for Rhong to actually win.

      Just self darking with yourself via Trishula Stardiver spam while solo is a huge DPS boost that can’t be touched by anything in the game. It isn’t even a contest there at all.
    • Rhong honestly has to start winning by close to ~10%+before it becomes worth using. Occasionally closing even an uncommon and random level 2 or 3 with Trish is just a significant DPS gain. With ~3k Stardiver damage over over Rhong, Trish can easily wipe the floor with it.

      Taking anything that isn’t Trish into 99% of situations means you don’t care about how much damage you do. Which is fine, but don’t dare try to defend that choice as optimal.
    • By this point who fucking cares, you made a trophy weapon (Rhong) for an absolute minuscule gain on paper in unrealistic or rare situations. If you didn’t already have HQ synthed gear like Ioskeha Belt +1 then you are a fool for wasting money instead of buying straight upgrades.
    • Making trophy weapons doesn’t make you “a serious DRG”. Using that argument as a reason to make Rhong more likely makes you someone desperately trying to justify their bias. It doesn’t matter if anyone is a “completionIST” either. No one really thinks a person with all the 50 state quarters, a collection of stamps, and every issue of Maxim Magazine ever released is a cool cat. It just means they have an subjectively lame hobby; maybe a lack of a social life.
    • The spreadsheet isn’t using Camlanns and is maintaining AM better than a player can. The simulator also maintains AM3 better than a player will. Which is partly why we stick to the 3 minute sims which give the best shot of ever winning to Rhong. It starts the fight with 3k TP and gains AM.

      Otherwise any “lead” of Rhongomiant is completely lost and likely (if not completely) a deficit over the course of 5,000 attack rounds with perfect maintenance of AM3.
      Keep in mind the simulator isn't using Jump either. Which doesn't matter because you don't need it for AM3 in the 3 minute sims.

      Anyway, this is shown in the raw data for WoC below where the “Simulated Average” above the three minute sims is a 5,000 attack round simulation.

      Essentially Rhong may only ever be justified if you either somehow have it and not Trishula or you are fighting one NM for 3 minutes or less (certainly a fight can be too short as well) with 3k TP ready beforehand. Where you never skillchain in a buffed up fight without COR rolls, SMN buffs, etc. So, basically never. It just doesn’t happen. Which makes Rhong a colossal waste of time and money.

      It doesn’t matter how close Rhong gets if something I made in about 3 days with my linkshell for nearly free (yes, including eschite ores covering pop costs) beats something that would take me tons of money and much more time to finish.
      Even buying Trish from mercs is cheaper than buying Rhong. Who in their right mind would recommend Rhong with the presented data?? It just isn’t practical.
    • I also don’t want anyone calling bias. Rhong was given a fair shot. I only have an interest in finding the best option.

      The guide originally stated Rhong was the best polearm, and I was starting to make it myself. This happened right as Austar released the sim. I have been vetting this polearm for over a month since and through gear updates and changes. I am now forever done with this shit as it took a lot of time. That being said, I will do some Gungnir and Ryu stuff though.

      This is welcome to peer review, but not bullshit like possibly the worst ingame testing I have ever heard of:
      Via Quetz in Reisenjima, to test “kill speed between Rhong and Trish”. Which, wow, that one was just bad. It was about as scientific as a Snapple cap. Kat doesn’t quite rival the original Nabis 3 hit zanshin build thread which was deleted and lost to history, but it isn’t far off.

      Conclusion: Rhongo is Wrongo. Get the fuck over it, Kat.

      Rhong can only "win" in extremely unlikely situations within a narrow time frame. Essentially it never does.


    Sim raw data:
    Spoiler: show

    WoC No rolls:

    Simulated Average: trishula 4639.82 (WS : 21102.61 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4687.74 (WS : 20994.5 )
    4441.66 (WS : 20971.52 )
    4489.71 (WS : 19976.71 )
    4730.35 (WS : 20651.53 )
    4573.86 (WS : 21126.29 )
    4604.96 (WS : 20507.81 )
    4496.43 (WS : 21403.57 )
    4860.29 (WS : 21030.35 )
    4094.23 (WS : 19958.08 )
    4594.97 (WS : 20261.07 )

    Average of runs: 4557.42

    Simulated Average: trishula 4661.47 (WS : 21179.57 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4759.73 (WS : 21155.09 )
    4627.9 (WS : 20599.0 )
    5127.66 (WS : 22500.85 )
    4412.27 (WS : 20339.11 )
    4259.38 (WS : 19366.5 )
    4693.94 (WS : 21633.56 )
    4653.58 (WS : 20751.71 )
    4607.85 (WS : 20677.45 )
    4618.7 (WS : 21648.72 )
    4676.83 (WS : 20957.31 )

    Average of runs: 4643.78

    Simulated Average: trishula 4666.75 (WS : 21184.81 )
    AA Percent: 0.18 WS Percent: 0.82

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4939.68 (WS : 21732.7 )
    4660.75 (WS : 21616.21 )
    4618.57 (WS : 21206.93 )
    4919.94 (WS : 22870.15 )
    4751.98 (WS : 20857.33 )
    4600.52 (WS : 20920.67 )
    4948.5 (WS : 21519.5 )
    5075.52 (WS : 23083.85 )
    4782.47 (WS : 20693.17 )
    4729.62 (WS : 21517.51 )

    Average of runs: 4802.76

    Simulated Average: trishula 4614.31 (WS : 21019.25 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4812.0 (WS : 21092.59 )
    4748.81 (WS : 21160.48 )
    4370.47 (WS : 19908.99 )
    4646.48 (WS : 20438.61 )
    4631.57 (WS : 21301.27 )
    4880.48 (WS : 21317.97 )
    5158.94 (WS : 23442.97 )
    4858.87 (WS : 22196.5 )
    4852.87 (WS : 21703.08 )
    5043.94 (WS : 22590.71 )

    Average of runs: 4800.44

    Simulated Average: trishula 4594.56 (WS : 21043.81 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4065.68 (WS : 19351.33 )
    4618.12 (WS : 21129.44 )
    4664.51 (WS : 21489.14 )
    4677.52 (WS : 20586.45 )
    4667.27 (WS : 23287.75 )
    4692.87 (WS : 21005.48 )
    4924.35 (WS : 22057.96 )
    4708.39 (WS : 21583.03 )
    4750.15 (WS : 20870.69 )
    4692.75 (WS : 21102.14 )

    Average of runs: 4646.16

    Simulated Average: trishula 4668.94 (WS : 21070.26 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    5145.03 (WS : 23480.97 )
    5107.71 (WS : 22274.93 )
    5178.32 (WS : 22005.77 )
    4502.87 (WS : 21421.85 )
    4770.08 (WS : 22604.23 )
    4642.26 (WS : 19938.6 )
    4804.76 (WS : 22942.72 )
    4731.35 (WS : 20930.62 )
    5061.48 (WS : 21948.01 )
    4681.27 (WS : 20853.89 )

    Average of runs: 4862.51

    Simulated Average: trishula 4701.1 (WS : 21233.56 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    5362.86 (WS : 22171.43 )
    4631.21 (WS : 21329.9 )
    4431.61 (WS : 20270.74 )
    4853.28 (WS : 22599.06 )
    4721.52 (WS : 20996.44 )
    4789.96 (WS : 22525.4 )
    4375.51 (WS : 21000.24 )
    4572.23 (WS : 21632.73 )
    4626.86 (WS : 21483.24 )
    4474.41 (WS : 20474.47 )

    Average of runs: 4683.94

    Simulated Average: trishula 4638.09 (WS : 21079.36 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4848.18 (WS : 21980.77 )
    4599.2 (WS : 20965.86 )
    5161.69 (WS : 23528.8 )
    4871.13 (WS : 21943.02 )
    4829.17 (WS : 21397.7 )
    4881.43 (WS : 21162.01 )
    4933.43 (WS : 21775.75 )
    4577.05 (WS : 20836.77 )
    4628.76 (WS : 21076.29 )
    4492.37 (WS : 20181.51 )

    Average of runs: 4782.24

    Simulated Average: trishula 4647.98 (WS : 21111.47 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4479.17 (WS : 20256.73 )
    4459.8 (WS : 20880.68 )
    4793.74 (WS : 21990.5 )
    5088.93 (WS : 23236.51 )
    4810.42 (WS : 20388.21 )
    4754.67 (WS : 21258.13 )
    4819.53 (WS : 21715.76 )
    4345.81 (WS : 20676.23 )
    4602.4 (WS : 21828.22 )
    4687.19 (WS : 21734.43 )

    Average of runs: 4684.17

    Simulated Average: trishula 4656.41 (WS : 21120.59 )
    AA Percent: 0.19 WS Percent: 0.81

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    4663.17 (WS : 21750.27 )
    4520.64 (WS : 20579.42 )
    4570.78 (WS : 21180.96 )
    4327.49 (WS : 19980.91 )
    4606.69 (WS : 21174.99 )
    4501.99 (WS : 20432.66 )
    4655.12 (WS : 22539.86 )
    4808.66 (WS : 21580.06 )
    4815.99 (WS : 21760.37 )
    4946.57 (WS : 21562.57 )

    Average of runs: 4641.71

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4953.1 (WS : 18585.06 )
    5174.09 (WS : 18246.45 )
    4606.18 (WS : 16664.73 )
    4868.54 (WS : 16491.12 )
    4990.66 (WS : 17868.75 )
    5078.49 (WS : 18223.31 )
    4741.54 (WS : 16660.3 )
    4816.79 (WS : 17765.3 )
    5147.24 (WS : 17853.85 )
    5110.27 (WS : 16772.47 )

    Average of runs: 4948.69

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4665.34 (WS : 17308.42 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5065.6 (WS : 17133.24 )
    4965.47 (WS : 18346.82 )
    5186.85 (WS : 18494.01 )
    4849.08 (WS : 17437.23 )
    4976.64 (WS : 18145.31 )
    4912.18 (WS : 17946.76 )
    4672.98 (WS : 18148.22 )
    5123.02 (WS : 17859.91 )
    4864.26 (WS : 17736.63 )
    5247.29 (WS : 18358.69 )

    Average of runs: 4986.34

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4653.71 (WS : 17359.15 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4797.67 (WS : 17469.84 )
    4884.15 (WS : 17901.54 )
    4425.91 (WS : 16194.58 )
    4572.76 (WS : 16834.17 )
    5176.33 (WS : 17726.56 )
    4825.97 (WS : 18068.75 )
    4851.93 (WS : 16239.31 )
    4862.77 (WS : 17220.31 )
    4880.64 (WS : 17008.96 )
    5271.67 (WS : 16956.56 )

    Average of runs: 4854.98

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4676.75 (WS : 17343.69 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4336.26 (WS : 16926.47 )
    4592.48 (WS : 16619.14 )
    4966.7 (WS : 17445.03 )
    5000.48 (WS : 17483.55 )
    4590.22 (WS : 17044.74 )
    4534.48 (WS : 16202.9 )
    4584.4 (WS : 16508.63 )
    4891.96 (WS : 18124.83 )
    4979.45 (WS : 16661.98 )
    4637.64 (WS : 17418.1 )

    Average of runs: 4711.41

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4611.46 (WS : 17092.53 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5262.48 (WS : 17551.58 )
    5417.91 (WS : 18350.26 )
    5112.78 (WS : 18187.27 )
    4824.48 (WS : 17273.22 )
    5011.96 (WS : 17292.55 )
    4870.68 (WS : 17268.01 )
    5326.77 (WS : 18404.54 )
    4573.86 (WS : 16772.18 )
    4420.88 (WS : 15861.88 )
    4544.88 (WS : 17096.95 )

    Average of runs: 4936.67

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4713.03 (WS : 17418.47 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5452.99 (WS : 18554.51 )
    4758.98 (WS : 15956.84 )
    4423.14 (WS : 17163.83 )
    5102.51 (WS : 17321.36 )
    4929.37 (WS : 18123.7 )
    4783.75 (WS : 16922.62 )
    4969.52 (WS : 16530.5 )
    4913.96 (WS : 16959.79 )
    4616.5 (WS : 17083.18 )
    4759.6 (WS : 16785.56 )

    Average of runs: 4871.03

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4649.0 (WS : 17244.2 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4423.36 (WS : 16700.46 )
    4817.45 (WS : 16443.96 )
    4814.57 (WS : 16871.07 )
    4742.87 (WS : 17189.75 )
    4794.85 (WS : 17149.64 )
    5044.63 (WS : 17951.08 )
    4891.28 (WS : 18285.63 )
    5152.18 (WS : 18430.07 )
    4654.13 (WS : 16730.96 )
    4829.01 (WS : 17229.07 )

    Average of runs: 4816.43

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4645.52 (WS : 17204.08 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4867.87 (WS : 17711.93 )
    4721.58 (WS : 16806.09 )
    4991.23 (WS : 16086.62 )
    4914.83 (WS : 17647.1 )
    5163.73 (WS : 17945.59 )
    5098.22 (WS : 16827.21 )
    4915.91 (WS : 16421.7 )
    4804.35 (WS : 17571.11 )
    4351.19 (WS : 16521.24 )
    4596.23 (WS : 16173.52 )

    Average of runs: 4842.51

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4685.4 (WS : 17468.62 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4989.75 (WS : 16921.03 )
    4804.36 (WS : 16886.85 )
    4756.22 (WS : 17967.95 )
    4883.83 (WS : 18628.11 )
    4563.26 (WS : 15777.75 )
    4990.81 (WS : 16864.85 )
    4873.41 (WS : 17535.64 )
    4387.93 (WS : 16306.57 )
    5313.23 (WS : 18525.51 )
    4561.56 (WS : 17390.12 )

    Average of runs: 4812.44

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 4662.45 (WS : 17369.18 )
    AA Percent: 0.43 WS Percent: 0.57

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    4956.96 (WS : 16910.27 )
    4972.39 (WS : 17010.02 )
    4877.88 (WS : 16599.89 )
    4519.24 (WS : 17189.4 )
    4409.92 (WS : 15224.78 )
    4747.72 (WS : 16505.33 )
    4585.12 (WS : 17010.55 )
    4655.72 (WS : 16751.94 )
    4821.88 (WS : 16788.9 )
    4958.83 (WS : 17207.39 )

    Average of runs: 4750.57

    WoC with Rolls:

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5954.15 (WS : 20230.66 )

    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6259.47 (WS : 19878.28 )
    6255.96 (WS : 20689.95 )
    5980.82 (WS : 19571.13 )
    6050.21 (WS : 19711.95 )
    5787.42 (WS : 18860.81 )
    6338.07 (WS : 20514.24 )
    6208.58 (WS : 19811.8 )
    6229.33 (WS : 19810.03 )
    6545.85 (WS : 21778.42 )
    6198.85 (WS : 20671.32 )

    Average of runs: 6185.46

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 6002.87 (WS : 20231.31 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6131.54 (WS : 20194.55 )
    6026.28 (WS : 20101.95 )
    6316.4 (WS : 20004.88 )
    6166.07 (WS : 20918.4 )
    5958.12 (WS : 19437.71 )
    6185.76 (WS : 20671.59 )
    5798.18 (WS : 19535.27 )
    5990.15 (WS : 19637.07 )
    6371.19 (WS : 21378.18 )
    6294.51 (WS : 20529.84 )

    Average of runs: 6123.82

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5976.45 (WS : 20096.7 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6284.78 (WS : 19969.9 )
    6325.65 (WS : 20926.08 )
    6320.33 (WS : 21160.68 )
    6252.94 (WS : 19922.8 )
    6326.68 (WS : 20333.84 )
    6372.61 (WS : 20490.38 )
    5922.6 (WS : 19547.6 )
    6304.8 (WS : 20959.47 )
    6442.65 (WS : 20886.98 )
    6362.78 (WS : 20317.25 )

    Average of runs: 6291.58

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5958.79 (WS : 20011.94 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6192.88 (WS : 20454.87 )
    6000.96 (WS : 20946.85 )
    5935.02 (WS : 19422.69 )
    6243.14 (WS : 21090.78 )
    6485.49 (WS : 20111.1 )
    5969.55 (WS : 18934.53 )
    6308.29 (WS : 20151.91 )
    5888.01 (WS : 19466.46 )
    6169.77 (WS : 19778.72 )
    6208.85 (WS : 19956.44 )

    Average of runs: 6140.2

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5966.17 (WS : 20153.92 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6266.15 (WS : 20293.91 )
    5652.27 (WS : 18935.85 )
    6489.68 (WS : 21265.1 )
    5899.12 (WS : 20009.73 )
    5901.43 (WS : 18959.69 )
    6028.72 (WS : 19424.41 )
    5912.75 (WS : 19984.1 )
    6056.04 (WS : 20072.62 )
    6108.63 (WS : 20013.19 )
    6214.37 (WS : 20250.64 )

    Average of runs: 6052.92

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 6036.65 (WS : 20307.73 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5791.85 (WS : 19302.29 )
    6204.13 (WS : 20015.86 )
    6326.13 (WS : 20252.74 )
    6297.48 (WS : 19856.96 )
    5960.1 (WS : 19535.43 )
    6085.58 (WS : 20493.98 )
    6192.44 (WS : 20975.28 )
    6465.73 (WS : 20112.13 )
    5786.31 (WS : 20354.52 )
    6060.45 (WS : 19652.15 )

    Average of runs: 6117.02

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5970.7 (WS : 20091.72 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5812.99 (WS : 19589.04 )
    5847.75 (WS : 20263.83 )
    5750.25 (WS : 19372.27 )
    6530.53 (WS : 21009.15 )
    6332.7 (WS : 20658.32 )
    5945.76 (WS : 19934.75 )
    6471.18 (WS : 20340.59 )
    6463.03 (WS : 20685.27 )
    6004.52 (WS : 19846.75 )
    6106.4 (WS : 20060.85 )

    Average of runs: 6126.51

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5987.75 (WS : 20281.62 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6222.9 (WS : 19693.07 )
    6069.0 (WS : 20224.49 )
    6101.0 (WS : 20145.97 )
    6153.65 (WS : 19893.56 )
    6073.37 (WS : 19244.7 )
    6648.19 (WS : 20892.44 )
    6012.88 (WS : 19394.39 )
    6221.82 (WS : 19471.96 )
    6431.2 (WS : 20507.23 )
    6084.76 (WS : 20416.21 )

    Average of runs: 6201.88

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5989.45 (WS : 20151.62 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    6400.65 (WS : 21378.84 )
    6111.11 (WS : 21083.42 )
    6014.96 (WS : 19309.16 )
    6090.97 (WS : 19848.74 )
    6054.06 (WS : 20215.62 )
    6331.42 (WS : 21476.44 )
    6338.25 (WS : 19808.42 )
    6167.07 (WS : 20667.36 )
    5532.72 (WS : 19106.24 )
    6122.72 (WS : 19687.04 )

    Average of runs: 6116.39

    Simulated Average: rhongomiant 5996.66 (WS : 20300.81 )
    AA Percent: 0.33 WS Percent: 0.67

    Three Minute Sims.: rhongomiant

    5900.82 (WS : 19915.75 )
    6527.97 (WS : 20729.51 )
    6401.53 (WS : 20307.38 )
    5646.15 (WS : 19295.22 )
    5899.26 (WS : 20729.98 )
    5797.46 (WS : 19646.69 )
    6050.36 (WS : 19612.91 )
    6302.97 (WS : 19676.34 )
    6243.51 (WS : 19447.9 )
    6287.82 (WS : 20674.49 )

    Average of runs: 6105.79

    Simulated Average: trishula 6361.1 (WS : 22636.66 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6206.76 (WS : 21750.58 )
    6380.57 (WS : 22406.28 )
    6079.65 (WS : 22940.47 )
    6635.68 (WS : 22845.71 )
    6464.09 (WS : 22830.2 )
    6141.48 (WS : 22296.39 )
    6086.96 (WS : 22148.29 )
    6714.24 (WS : 23582.75 )
    6134.52 (WS : 22063.79 )
    6272.9 (WS : 23395.92 )

    Average of runs: 6311.68

    Simulated Average: trishula 6397.87 (WS : 22631.93 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6417.55 (WS : 22274.54 )
    6288.96 (WS : 22650.08 )
    6354.56 (WS : 22173.35 )
    6624.36 (WS : 23290.15 )
    6240.19 (WS : 22439.28 )
    6275.02 (WS : 23590.3 )
    6361.66 (WS : 22672.53 )
    6117.56 (WS : 22494.97 )
    6306.16 (WS : 23973.32 )
    6450.19 (WS : 23197.0 )

    Average of runs: 6343.62

    Simulated Average: trishula 6338.27 (WS : 22579.23 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6359.16 (WS : 22561.72 )
    6902.56 (WS : 23333.14 )
    6611.83 (WS : 23095.55 )
    6368.56 (WS : 22520.13 )
    6607.71 (WS : 23518.71 )
    6441.87 (WS : 23552.41 )
    6037.73 (WS : 22105.11 )
    6433.71 (WS : 23525.11 )
    6421.33 (WS : 23082.76 )
    6606.31 (WS : 23214.09 )

    Average of runs: 6479.08

    Simulated Average: trishula 6351.62 (WS : 22634.67 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6442.66 (WS : 22802.37 )
    6394.3 (WS : 22268.23 )
    6277.72 (WS : 22942.52 )
    6631.37 (WS : 23046.78 )
    6503.35 (WS : 22344.17 )
    6487.33 (WS : 22458.89 )
    6763.09 (WS : 23759.1 )
    6207.17 (WS : 22083.94 )
    6753.84 (WS : 24429.21 )
    6726.38 (WS : 23312.6 )

    Average of runs: 6518.72

    Simulated Average: trishula 6352.91 (WS : 22558.28 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    5949.5 (WS : 21666.3 )
    7051.97 (WS : 23641.28 )
    6429.75 (WS : 22192.81 )
    6335.17 (WS : 22022.06 )
    6694.3 (WS : 22797.47 )
    6696.54 (WS : 23448.03 )
    6622.0 (WS : 22439.94 )
    6593.1 (WS : 23142.52 )
    6888.77 (WS : 23430.52 )
    6195.07 (WS : 22309.8 )

    Average of runs: 6545.62

    Simulated Average: trishula 6347.01 (WS : 22543.48 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6177.82 (WS : 22796.02 )
    6246.75 (WS : 22076.77 )
    6630.24 (WS : 23583.02 )
    6142.25 (WS : 21461.79 )
    6595.8 (WS : 23499.43 )
    6712.03 (WS : 23226.35 )
    6496.77 (WS : 22778.68 )
    6206.75 (WS : 22598.39 )
    6498.16 (WS : 22781.6 )
    6261.44 (WS : 22024.83 )

    Average of runs: 6396.8

    Simulated Average: trishula 6352.19 (WS : 22611.35 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6433.88 (WS : 22062.95 )
    6758.27 (WS : 23158.04 )
    6037.16 (WS : 21975.8 )
    6576.64 (WS : 23927.45 )
    6345.7 (WS : 22598.49 )
    6440.29 (WS : 23550.9 )
    7028.29 (WS : 24762.48 )
    6589.28 (WS : 23789.89 )
    6594.22 (WS : 22999.42 )
    6566.01 (WS : 22391.57 )

    Average of runs: 6536.97

    Simulated Average: trishula 6371.41 (WS : 22528.19 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6063.07 (WS : 22165.93 )
    5900.36 (WS : 21806.36 )
    6848.8 (WS : 23324.02 )
    6426.2 (WS : 22718.71 )
    6076.75 (WS : 21891.09 )
    6526.95 (WS : 22698.65 )
    6467.5 (WS : 22223.52 )
    6332.58 (WS : 21859.42 )
    6418.88 (WS : 22864.98 )
    6244.06 (WS : 21462.37 )

    Average of runs: 6330.51

    Simulated Average: trishula 6398.56 (WS : 22656.41 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6089.71 (WS : 21482.97 )
    6221.32 (WS : 22074.71 )
    6500.45 (WS : 22162.81 )
    6650.81 (WS : 23652.99 )
    6499.88 (WS : 22449.25 )
    6663.56 (WS : 24406.89 )
    6469.28 (WS : 22684.66 )
    5980.07 (WS : 21739.78 )
    6536.34 (WS : 23496.82 )
    6554.51 (WS : 22796.96 )

    Average of runs: 6416.59

    Simulated Average: trishula 6359.91 (WS : 22512.3 )
    AA Percent: 0.13 WS Percent: 0.87

    Three Minute Sims.: trishula

    6163.16 (WS : 22253.89 )
    6296.43 (WS : 21796.76 )
    6575.0 (WS : 22276.18 )
    6363.47 (WS : 23407.98 )
    6709.87 (WS : 23458.17 )
    6216.76 (WS : 22886.99 )
    6273.69 (WS : 22245.72 )
    6210.55 (WS : 22040.21 )
    7031.71 (WS : 24297.71 )
    6462.09 (WS : 22957.31 )

    Average of runs: 6430.27


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  2. #2
    Sea Torques
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    Who even cares spicy, your drg sucks; I've seen how you play
    After that horrible ambuscade strat?? lmaoooo
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  3. #3
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modoru View Post
    Who even cares spicy, your drg sucks; I've seen how you play
    After that horrible ambuscade strat?? lmaoooo
    'AND NOW YOU JUST RUN AROUND! SOMETHING 3K TP SOMETHING!'

    Nothing says "special" like someone making youtube account just to post a x2 speed and persistently blurry video because they are mad at your DRG guide. It reminded me of Gohan's DRG video.

    As they say the fastest was under 4 minutes, and the video they posted was over 6 minutes including the amusing kiting.
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  4. #4
    Ridill
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    Didn't he start causing stuff in the mnk thread too?

    Also my ambuscade strat best strat
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  5. #5
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Didn't he start causing stuff in the mnk thread too?

    Also my ambuscade strat best strat
    LOLPUP.

    Probably thinking of Cherrywine, now there is another dipshit.

    Kat did get pissed off in the ambu thread because they started attacking me for my non-mewing strategy and the mods deleted their posts. They then proceeded to get multiple "you should have been doing this SC" suggestions wrong though following the attacks.
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  6. #6
    Sea Torques
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    WHY ARE YOU SILENCING MY OPINIONS??
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  7. #7
    Ridill
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    Hey man don't expect me to keep up with ah drama.
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  8. #8
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Hey man don't expect me to keep up with ah drama.
    I couldn't help but follow it since it was getting mentioned by multiple people as well as for the fact involved the DRG guide and I

    To be fair it was the biggest train wreck of ignorance ever:

    Quote Originally Posted by They actually said this:
    Hypothesis:

    Skillchains are erratic in nature and get affected by many factors.
    Problem: Isolate Skillchains to check the performance of Rho vs Trish.

    Methodology: introduce stabilizers to isolate this erratic element.

    SD>Cam>Drake>Cam>CAM

    60% stable with fixed TP return and a constant curve.

    Skillchain from Cam will almost always be constant due to the nature of its design.

    Gather Data > construct the curve > overlay both curves from each weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annnnnnd this...
    Quote Originally Posted by the guide
    No, the 50 VIT doesn't "count for something"
    It does matter and I explained it many times you are literally having half a Miso with Rho.
    HALF A MISO!!!!!!!!???!!
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  9. #9
    Sea Torques
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    ...half a miso? u lost me
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  10. #10
    Ridill
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    Ramen?
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  11. #11
    i should really shut up
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  12. #12
    Impossiblu
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    Reading those quotes about "testing" skillchains being "erratic" just makes me think they looked up an online thesaurus to make their post more verbose in order to try to garner more credibility. It doesn't really work and ends up making them look fucking stupid.
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  13. #13
    Sea Torques
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    I made sense of the miso ramen thing like half an hour after posting while I was working, lol

    By that logic, I should full-time +3 AF on every job since it's half a sub sushi!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modoru View Post
    I made sense of the miso ramen thing like half an hour after posting while I was working, lol

    By that logic, I should full-time +3 AF on every job since it's half a sub sushi!
    Every piece of AF +3 is a Miso
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  15. #15
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicyryan View Post
    Every piece of AF +3 is a Miso
    Oh shit
    think of the potential
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  16. #16
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modoru View Post
    Oh shit
    think of the potential
    Too stronk. Never dye.

    Right now I am working on the potential of Gungnir. Wish the spreadsheet easily displayed your hit rate (and pDIF while it is at it!!). Luckily the simulator can show my hit rate on the fly so I can mess around with scenarios to try and peg when it wins over Trish. It would be the only weapon that could actually beat Trish, zing!
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  17. #17
    Cerberus
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    Any good DRG luas there? I didn't see any, one would help

    disregard, I can't read, and they were well hidden, my only 2 weaknesses.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seol View Post
    Any good DRG luas there? I didn't see any, one would help

    disregard, I can't read, and they were well hidden, my only 2 weaknesses.
    DRG guide has 3, and believe I at least edited mine into the gearswap shop thread's OP.
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  19. #19
    Smells like Onions
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    I just want to mention a few things regarding my sim when he ran his numbers. For one, you'll notice DPS is a bit lower in the sim for both weapons, that's due to jumps being removed at the time since I had just added Ryunohige and they didn't support AM3.

    I don't know how the sheets handle jumps, but in the case of Rho, jumps are best saved for getting AM3 after it's worn off, not during, due to AM3 not proccing on jumps. So in regards to that, when I re-add jumps, my sim will only use Soul Jump if AM3 duration is greater than 100 seconds and Spirit Jump if AM3 is greater than 50 seconds so as to make sure they are always available to get AM3 back as quickly as possible. Ryunohige will use jumps before AM3 wears off based off of TP per hit and delay which will changed based on haste. I'm currently planning on 3000 / TP Per hit / delay as the threshold, so at capped delay reduction it should be around 5-7 seconds of AM3 remaining to use jumps again. Other weapons will use jump freely to get TP whenever below a certain point, which I haven't yet determined, previously it was anytime below 1K TP.

    Another difference is TP Overflow. I believe the spreadsheets force TP overflow and my simulation will immediately WS at 1K instead, which is why the WS numbers are a bit higher.

    Edit: Also wyvern breaths add a few percentage to a WS phase.
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  20. #20
    Smells like Onions
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    Leviathan

    I got pointed to this thread because of friends seeing Katriina get set straight, however I do have 1 question regarding tp sets with rolls. Would you say that Emicho +1 body/hands combination is good to use over STP valrous and +2 Sulev. hands? Thanks in advance!
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