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  1. #181

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Zoning was never going to be a viable option in an ArcSys game.
    stfu, capcuck.

    We're actually interested in fixes and patches that'll make an already great game incredible.

    Your bitch ass is just looking for more ways to suck shitty capcom game dick.

  2. #182
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Zoning was never going to be a viable option in an ArcSys game.
    This goes to show how much you know about Arcsys games lol.

    Axl, Dizzy, Venom are characters that can completely control your ass in zoning, and in older GG games, Testament can hold you down with traps, and Bridget can zone you into a rushdown mixup. Unless your next argument is that we're not counting Guilty Gear, although it's an Arcsys game, then i dono what else to tell you tbh.

  4. #184
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    The amount of rage I used to induce with my nigga Axl cuz scrubs could never get in was godliek. I've never played as fun of a zoning character in any other fg.

  5. #185
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    rachel/nu/arakune in BBCT, holy shit. holy absolute shit, you'd get zoned out all goddamned day. one of my proudest FG moments was beating a young KV's arakune in CT with hakumen, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitsuki View Post
    This goes to show how much you know about Arcsys games lol.
    I'm an Axl main, I got t-9th at 2015 NCR in XrdS. Zoning is not even close to viable in GG, and the fact that you cite Axl as an example of "complete control with zoning in ArcSys" pretty much proves my point. Axl has to rushdown to compete because zoning is pathetic in GG.

    The best "zoning" character in ArcSys history is AC+R Justice: a B rank character that still loses to good players while zoning, but kind of makes it interesting on the way down. There is nothing in ArcSys' catalog that stands up to ST Dhalsim, Old Sagat, MVC2 Cable, MVC3 Morrigan, or any real zoners.

    But maybe you disagree. What's the biggest tournament won by zoning in any ArcSys game? Dhalsim has won Evo multiple times, Cable has won Evo multiple times, Morrigan has won Evo multiple times. The most charitable description you can use for zoning in an ArcSys game is that it helps set up your inevitable rushdown.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moridam View Post
    rachel/nu/arakune in BBCT, holy shit. holy absolute shit, you'd get zoned out all goddamned day. one of my proudest FG moments was beating a young KV's arakune in CT with hakumen, lol.
    ^

  8. #188
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    1) None of those characters have ever even gotten top 3 at Evo (strictly speaking, BBCT was never there, but BBCP and BBCF were), so I'd like to hear what they have won.
    2) If you are being forced to guess how to block incoming mixups, you are not being zoned. You are being rushed down. Because that is what rushdown is.

    I specifically point out #2 because the standard of what constitutes "zoning" in ArcSys games always seems to turn out to be ultra humble.
    i.e. "I 'zone' you to set up my rushdown because beating you with my zoning is impossible"

    Quote Originally Posted by Deejay View Post
    A.) What measure are you using to determine whether an assist is 'good' enough? The assists may not seem good from the eyes of someone who's only played Marvel their whole life, but that doesn't mean that they can't or won't play a huge role in the game's meta.
    Skullgirls' assists are even better than Marvel's, so it's not an issue of "only playing Marvel." But outside of that, what assists should I compare it to... KOF strikers? DBFZ assists are not particularly impressive. They are similar to MvSF assists; better in that you can call them ground or air without an animation, worse in that the cooldown is much longer.

  9. #189
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    Again, your opinion of the assists being 'not good' does not conflate to them being 'not useful'. If they are affecting the game's meta (which they are) then they are still a crucial part of competitive team building.

  10. #190
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    My original point was it makes sense for the meta to be point/point/point, because the assists are not effective enough to justify a point/point/assist or point/assist/anchor meta. There is no Captain Corridor, there is no Doom rocks, there is no shopping cart or lariat or log trap; every character needs to survive on eating what they kill when out in front. And of the few assists that are approaching Marvel quality (Vegeta and some of the beams), the cooldown is so long that you can't really integrate them into a neutral gameplan. They are basically there for canned mixups and combo extensions.

  11. #191
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    Which puts a large emphasis on figuring out neutral with your point character, which in turn brings in a lot more players who shy away from these sorts of games, and allows for the game to be easier to digest for casuals.

    Win win in my book

  12. #192
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    To the extent that GG/BB/etc. are "easy to digest for casuals," sure.

    I mean, the mash L autocombos are fun and all, but in the ways that matter this game won't be any more casual-friendly than, say, MVC1. In a couple of months the meta will have matured to the point that casual players will not get a chance to play the game any more than they would in Marvel (or GG, for that matter). They will be too busy getting hit while unable to block.

    Fundamentally, most of the reasons that make airdash games unfriendly to casual players still apply here. The idea that this kind of game could be as accessible as a Street Fighter or Tekken game is... not realistic.

  13. #193
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    No one said it would ever be as accessible as simple Street Fighter. The point is that this sort of game has never been more accessible.

    Casuals can watch and actually enjoy the spectacle of what is happening on screen WHILE making sense of the action.

  14. #194
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    Are you talking about spectating, or playing? UMVC3 has one of the highest barriers to entry of any fighting game, and it was the top viewed game at Evo for several years in a row.

    I don't know that simply making assists worse makes the game more accessible to new players. I could see that argument for the lengthy cooldown timer, but if Ginyu's assist was one of the Ginyu Force summons instead of his shoulder bash, or if Gohan's DP assist had usable invulnerability, or if more characters simply had ki blast as their assist, I don't think that makes the game harder to pick up. It just makes the toolbox better.

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  16. #196
    Straight Ca$h Homie
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    yo, can't wait. I'm hype for this season.

  17. #197
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    Haven't been keeping up with DBFZ on NLBC or anything, seeing highlevel play will be really interesting.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohmane View Post
    Haven't been keeping up with DBFZ on NLBC or anything, seeing highlevel play will be really interesting.
    SonicFox is unstoppable.

  19. #199
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    Yeah no one is even close to him here lol, it's a slaughter every week.

  20. #200

    Nakkiel/Lordnight vs sonicfox/dekillsage going on right at funky p's stream for teams.

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