New or Returning Players Discussion 3: FFXI Single Player Edition

[Nyarlko]

Silly thf treasure hunter question since this is my first time having it:

Am I correct in understanding that: The first proc caps at 8.

Future procs become easier depending on how much TH you have in comparison to the first proc. So like if you proc an 8 but have TH 9 it's easier to get further procs than if you proc an 8 then switch to th 5.

If this is correct is there a cap to how much TH you can have to make further procs easier? If it's wrong, what am I misunderstanding?

The effective "cap" on how much TH will help is one less than your total cap, which is normally 12 (so anything over TH11 isn't going to help) and up to 14 with gifts (so anything over TH13 won't help.)

[Fwahm]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that SE stated that the gear/trait cap is TH8, period. Meleeing in TH9 will not give you a higher proc rate than meleeing in TH8.

[Valisk]

First proc cap is 9 for TH.

[Spicyryan]

First proc cap is 9 for TH.

Only becsuse the user tagged it in the gear cap of 8 (including trait)

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[Ksandra]

The effective "cap" on how much TH will help is one less than your total cap, which is normally 12 (so anything over TH11 isn't going to help) and up to 14 with gifts (so anything over TH13 won't help.)

Actually, I'm pretty sure that SE stated that the gear/trait cap is TH8, period. Meleeing in TH9 will not give you a higher proc rate than meleeing in TH8.

hmmmmmmmmmm I supposed I can work towards th13 just in case, unless someone has a post of SE (or testing) saying nothing over 8 matters.

[Nyarlko]

The last we heard on TH: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...001#post377001
If your current TH# is lower than the current proc/tag, then proc rate will be lowered/penalized. Having higher total TH than the current proc/tag does not increase the proc rate, but prevents the proc rate from lowering.

Basically, they wanted to ensure that TH+ gear maintained their perceived value, so they force us to fulltime it or get penalized with a lower proc rate.

[Ksandra]

The last we heard on TH: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...001#post377001
If your current TH# is lower than the current proc/tag, then proc rate will be lowered/penalized. Having higher total TH than the current proc/tag does not increase the proc rate, but prevents the proc rate from lowering.

Basically, they wanted to ensure that TH+ gear maintained their perceived value, so they force us to fulltime it or get penalized with a lower proc rate.

Many that thread is amazing.

TY!

[Spicyryan]

TH procs are largely useless anymore.

Very few things come to mind for its use, and none of them important.

Gear, claim it, take it off, kill it, done.

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[Ksandra]

TH procs are largely useless anymore.

Very few things come to mind for its use, and none of them important.

Gear, claim it, take it off, kill it, done.

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I'm mostly using my THF for th situations vs. being a melee dps. There's quite a few mobs I'd rather just get the drop I want and gfto. So maxing it out will serve its purpose for me.


[edit] Especially since it's not all that difficult to get TH gear.

[Fwahm]

The last we heard on TH: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...001#post377001
If your current TH# is lower than the current proc/tag, then proc rate will be lowered/penalized. Having higher total TH than the current proc/tag does not increase the proc rate, but prevents the proc rate from lowering.

Basically, they wanted to ensure that TH+ gear maintained their perceived value, so they force us to fulltime it or get penalized with a lower proc rate.

That doesn't mean that TH above 8 matters, and the whole reasoning they gave for them introducing a cap and consolidating TH on gear pieces was so that we didn't have to fulltime TH on half our slots for maximum TH rate.

[Nyarlko]

That doesn't mean that TH above 8 matters, and the whole reasoning they gave for them introducing a cap and consolidating TH on gear pieces was so that we didn't have to fulltime TH on half our slots for maximum TH rate.

As far as I can tell, there is quite literally nothing official, that says that TH above 8 does not matter. Trying to convince yourself/others otherwise is nothing but trying to justify being lazy about getting TH gear.

There are no links on the TH page that link to what you mentioned, nor have I found anything else when researching TH over the last 3yrs. Do you know where we could find any sort of statement after 11/09/2012 that confirms what you are saying? The devpost that we do have directly states that they wanted us to fulltime TH gear in order to maximize proc rate. If there is official word out that overrides the 11/2012 devpost, I would love to know about it.

copy/paste from the devpost that I'm referencing:

There have been requests to make it so that it's possible to switch out TH+ gear after the TH effect is placed on a monster, but as there is a concern that this would reduce the value of equipment with Treasure Hunter+ and also takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter, we would like to keep it as it is currently.

Capping the initial proc actually forces us to fulltime for those higher tiers. If there was no cap, then it would be whack once w/ TH14 and then go full DD mode, which would go directly against the quoted statement.

Please note that I have not mentioned at all how large an impact the highest proc tiers have on drop rates. So far, we've managed to focus on proc rates. The debate on whether or not it's actually worth aiming for TH12+ should probably go in a different thread. Anyone have any recent/post-SoA TH testing data btw?

[Fwahm]

As far as I can tell, there is quite literally nothing official, that says that TH above 8 does not matter. Trying to convince yourself/others otherwise is nothing but trying to justify being lazy about getting TH gear.

There are no links on the TH page that link to what you mentioned, nor have I found anything else when researching TH over the last 3yrs. Do you know where we could find any sort of statement after 11/02/2012 that confirms what you are saying? The devpost that we do have directly states that they wanted us to fulltime TH gear in order to maximize proc rate. If there is official word out that overrides the 11/2012 devpost, I would love to know about it.

copy/paste from the devpost that I'm referencing:


Please note that I have not mentioned at all how large an impact the highest proc tiers have on drop rates. So far, we've managed to focus on proc rates. The debate on whether or not it's actually worth aiming for TH12+ should probably go in a different thread.

Said quote would have been older than 2012, not newer. Nothing in the quote you gave implies anything about the cap being higher than 8 when it comes to proc rates, so it doesn't need to "override" it. Your quote only says that you need to keep your TH gear on after the first proc, and nothing about how much of that TH gear matters.

I'm about 90% sure that there was a statement older than that which talks about it, but it IS possible that I'm mistaken. Regardless, even if I am misremembering, the entire point behind their current paradigm for TH gear is to NOT require us to replace half our slots with TH. Requiring TH above 8 for maximum proc rate would go exactly counter to that.

[Nyarlko]

Said quote would have been older than 2012, not newer. Nothing in the quote you gave implies anything about the cap being higher than 8 when it comes to proc rates, so it doesn't need to "override" it. Your quote only says that you need to keep your TH gear on after the first proc, and nothing about how much of that TH gear matters.

I'm about 90% sure that there was a statement older than that which talks about it, but it IS possible that I'm mistaken. Regardless, even if I am misremembering, the entire point behind their current paradigm for TH gear is to NOT require us to replace half our slots with TH. Requiring TH above 8 for maximum proc rate would go exactly counter to that.

OK. Full copy/paste of the devpost by Camate, dated November 9th, 2012. XD

Happy Friday everyone!

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but I wanted to share some information about Treasure Hunter.

This post might get a bit complicated since it is about Treasure Hunter, but that is the nature of the beast, as they say.

To shed some light of the background before I drop some knowledge bombs, there was a test performed by your fellow adventurers in Japan, and they noticed that after initially hitting the monster with maximum TH+ gear equipped and then switching to non-TH gear, the rate in which the TH value increased was reduced.

Now that you have the background…

Adding Treasure Hunter+ via equipment, or other means, will not increase the rate at which the Treasure Hunter value grows, as this is a set rate. However, when the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary. With that said, if you want to increase the Treasure Hunter value, it is best to utilize equipment that has the Treasure Hunter+ effect. By unequipping Treasure Hunter+ gear, you are essentially creating a gap between the value placed on the monster and your character, which results in an inefficient means for increasing the TH value.

There have been requests to make it so that it's possible to switch out TH+ gear after the TH effect is placed on a monster, but as there is a concern that this would reduce the value of equipment with Treasure Hunter+ and also takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter, we would like to keep it as it is currently.

You are trying to declare an unmentioned variable as a fact. Unless you can provide some sort of evidence from the devs that backs up your claim, or even modern era testing data (post SoA preferrably) with enough data points to be conclusive, you should include a qualifier like "I believe" or "I think". As of right now though, there is nothing to go against what I'm saying (based on an official statement,) and absolutely nothing to support what you are saying.

[Fwahm]

Yes, and? None of that says anything about a cap.

[Spicyryan]

Yes, and? None of that says anything about a cap.

Cool, but we don't need to know. If you want to proc TH, fight in TH gear. If you just need to tag something, don't.

This isn't an issue.

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[Ksandra]

I would imagine someone somewhere would have tested this already. Especially after they added TH into the chat log.

Does anyone remember when it was added to the log? I can try to find some tests people did after that time.

[Spicyryan]

I would imagine someone somewhere would have tested this already. Especially after they added TH into the chat log.

Does anyone remember when it was added to the log? I can try to find some tests people did after that time.

What test would we even need?

TH procs easier when you wear TH gear because the higher the current value is above yours the harder it is to proc further. Gear caps at +5 for THF for 8 with TH III Trait. The cap for TH procs is level 12; 13 and 14 with job gifts.

That is it, nothing else is needed.

[Ksandra]

What test would we even need?

TH procs easier when you wear TH gear because the higher the current value is above yours the harder it is to proc further. Gear caps at +5 for THF for 8 with TH III Trait. The cap for TH procs is level 12; 13 and 14 with job gifts.

That is it, nothing else is needed.

Other guy was saying it wasn't true. I was saying there must be someone somewhere who has the test to show that it is true. lol But thank you.

[Spicyryan]

Other guy was saying it wasn't true. I was saying there must be someone somewhere who has the test to show that it is true. lol But thank you.

NP, someone on BG needs to still have a torch to wave around for basic matters.

[Ksandra]

Are there any model viewers that still exist with updated gears?

Working on my lockstyle. :3