FFXIV drama: mansions, moogles and #metoo

[Corrderio]

I get to be indifferent cuz idgaf.

Gimma back COR then we'll talk.

I would actually come back if they did this.

[Dotsudoku]

Everything about COR basically exists through AST and MCH, so probs not happening

[Prothescar]

My favorite are the ones who actually think BLU will be lvl 80 before the expansion and the numerous content bans will be lifted. Idc about ppl who are indifferent because they don't care about BLU, but the ones who are telling me to inhale sunshine and rainbows, claiming it's absolutely retarded to be mad about SE butchering my favorite job? Yeah, fuck off. I waited years for this disappointment.

[Dotsudoku]

I expect it to get to 80 in 5.45, but I genuinely never expect it to be included and/or viable in any expansion's current content. Your irritation is warranted

[Fiye]

I expect it to never hit current cap and instead be relegated to the last expansion's cap.

I'd expect a BLU content update in 5.15 to Level60 and then 5.55 to 70 each with like an additional 10 abilities to learn.

[Silenka]

If you're not upset with their announcement then you might as well be white knighting.

I'm not, because BLU has never been one of my favorite jobs and wasn't one I was looking forward to.

I suppose I'd be relatively upset if they did this to DNC. But regardless, it's still really stupid to get as livid and threat-spewing as some of these people are over something in a video game.

[Prothescar]

I'm not, because BLU has never been one of my favorite jobs and wasn't one I was looking forward to.

I suppose I'd be relatively upset if they did this to DNC.

This is the problem, everyone says this shit. It ranges from "i don't like BLU, so I'm apathetic", which is whatever, to "Lol I don't like BLU so this is fine, if it was my job though...", which is ridiculous.

Honestly I'm spiteful enough to hope that this happens to all of their favorite jobs down the line too, because fuck you.

But regardless, it's still really stupid to get as livid and threat-spewing as some of these people are over something in a video game.

Threatening to throw a barrel of kerosene and box of matches at SE's building is lunacy, but people (like me) being upset over this are absolutely not being stupid. People (not necessarily yourself) need to do some serious introspective and say "oh. I wonder how I would feel if my favorite job was the one being assfucked into a worthless pile of shit".

[Destinye]

I mean, okay...

"Blue Mage doesn't work in FFXIV because they can use death on bosses! What if I don't have my spells and try to do content?" - What Yoshi essentially stated.

Dancer doesn't work in XIV either, especially if it's XI's style or one of the few times it showed up in a job based FF title. "Melee Healer?" That's out of the box of the current job design (as Yoshida said towards BLU also) so it's either melee, or a healer it can't be both, because it might be "OP" and what gear would it wear? According to Yoshi (again) they can't create a new line of armor sets (weapons obviously are fine but they save by not retroactively adding them to some content.)

So if we really are getting 2 - 3 jobs, I expect BLU and DNC to be "limited jobs" then Gunblade/Whatever to be actual jobs. Because if they somehow manage to make DNC work and forget they change shit like Fluid Aura/Stun/Silence/etc in higher end content/on bosses to not work..then they really just wanted to use BLU as a "test" for a new system.

If they really wanted to test a system so badly, they shoulda added PUP or BST, literally the perfect "solo" jobs they could have used.

[Carth]

I suppose I'd be relatively upset if they did this to DNC. But regardless, it's still really stupid to get as livid and threat-spewing as some of these people are over something in a video game.

I do agree threats are never a good thing, but I sympathize with the whole thing. If RDM--the job I rejoined the game for--was literally segregated from content because SE couldn't bother to think of a way to balance it for endgame content, I probably would have joined the XI'ites and said the game is soulless trash or something along those lines.

Far as I know, what the Dev team has done is pretty unheard of across the MMO industry, so even if you don't like BLU, you can still be pretty pissed off at the concept of "limited jobs" itself, because frankly it is something that is pretty dumb regardless of whatever job is used for it. The whole thing comes off as lazy.

Dancer doesn't work in XIV either, especially if it's XI's style or one of the few times it showed up in a job based FF title. "Melee Healer?" That's out of the box of the current job design (as Yoshida said towards BLU also) so it's either melee, or a healer it can't be both, because it might be "OP" and what gear would it wear? According to Yoshi (again) they can't create a new line of armor sets (weapons obviously are fine but they save by not retroactively adding them to some content.)

This is why I'm firmly believing if Dancer becomes a thing, it will be a DPS. The Dev team has pretty much relied on the flexibility of DPS to allow jobs to be more faithful iterations.

[Prothescar]

snip.

SE will throw the ultimate of curveballs. DNC will function like Mog in FFVI, fusing GEO and DNC into one unholy job where you have to collect dances from different geographical regions in your DANCE LOG. Of course, the status effects on these geo dances will be too powerful for raids and duties, therefor DNC will launch at lv 50 and won't be able to access 70-90% of the game
This will piss off two entire groups at once, ppl who want GEO and ppl who want DNC, which would be the most efficient use of time SE has made since the early 2000s.

[Silenka]

SE will throw the ultimate of curveballs. DNC will function like Mog in FFVI, fusing GEO and DNC into one unholy job where you have to collect dances from different geographical regions in your DANCE LOG. Of course, the status effects on these geo dances will be too powerful for raids and duties, therefor DNC will launch at lv 50 and won't be able to access 70-90% of the game
This will piss off two entire groups at once, ppl who want GEO and ppl who want DNC, which would be the most efficient use of time SE has made since the early 2000s.

I laughed, but you're right. Both DNC and GEO managed to break the game in XI (GEO is still breaking it afaik), if they were implemented in XIV anything like their XI iterations they might as well just be "limited jobs" too.

[Corrderio]

"Blue Mage doesn't work in FFXIV because they can use death on bosses! What if I don't have my spells and try to do content?" - What Yoshi essentially stated.

Did he actually say something like this?

[Destinye]

I laughed, but you're right. Both DNC and GEO managed to break the game in XI (GEO is still breaking it afaik), if they were implemented in XIV anything like their XI iterations they might as well just be "limited jobs" too.

Yeah, though it takes a really good/geared Geomancer to actually break anything and in terms of XI's design, you kinda deserve to break the game at that point. DNC broke it in a good way that it opened up soloability options for many jobs even if it's just low tier solo stuff.

Did he actually say something like this?

Yep, it wasn't directly a reason, but it was an example of problem situations that might (will on NA datacenter for sure) happen..which cutting through yoshi talk basically is part of their decision for what they ended up doing, large part of why people were all: "All you have to do is make death not work on bosses............................................ " Cuz even in Eureka Pyros death doesn't work on NMs no matter how low their HP is, so it's not like they couldn't do that for a blue mage version.

It leads to people defending yoshi: "Why give us spells if we can't use them?"

[Dotsudoku]

It's an obvious exaggeration, and a similarly obvious scapegoat. They're aware they can create BLU without a Death spell, and they're aware they can set lockouts based on a player's available spells.

The problem is that BLU's spell would need to have a mechanical symbiosis to them like every other non-healer in the game, which isn't compatible with the fluidity of setting 24 or so spells out of a possible 50 or 100 or what have you. Charged Whisker needs to somehow interact with 1000 Needles which needs to somehow interact with Bad Breath. Great- that's easily workable, until you remember that the player doesn't necessarily have all or any of those spells set at the moment.

Enter the system they've proposed: one where you're seemingly able to freecast whatever spells you have set in any way you please, because there is no rhyme or rhythm. The only problem with this system is that it's utterly impossible to balance, because most fights in this game are built around the assumption that everyone is at least x% productive to meet various checkpoints. Solution? Play alone. Probably forever, because time isn't going to solve the problem.

[solracht]

The problem is that BLU's spell would need to have a mechanical symbiosis to them like every other non-healer in the game, which isn't compatible with the fluidity of setting 24 or so spells out of a possible 50 or 100 or what have you. Charged Whisker needs to somehow interact with 1000 Needles which needs to somehow interact with Bad Breath. Great- that's easily workable, until you remember that the player doesn't necessarily have all or any of those spells set at the moment.

why is this even remotely a problem? under the hypothetical system you mentioned where there's a duty lockout unless you have certain spells available, not being able to combo 1000 needles into Bad Breath (because you're missing one of them) would only affect you in solo content anyway

ultimately they could've also given those spells interesting uncomboed effects, every spell in this game already supports like 5 extra combo/effect/stance modifiers so the system is already there

make it so that BLU gets a permanent stance when queued into duties that FFXIV-ies all equipped spells or something

there really had to be no compromise here, it's just the devs taking the easy way out which I can understand but don't pretend it's anything else but that, we could've had the freedom of the current BLU system while simultaneously having to fall back into a FFXIV-like BLU when playing with people

[Dotsudoku]

Begs the question of why they'd even bother with the freestyle stance, then. Out-of-duty content doesn't exist

And I don't mean that to be snarky. Nobody should be playing this game expecting creative freedom. FFXIV-ify a BLU and call it a day

[Prothescar]

because it's easier to throw a "job" into a set of cheap expendable content that they can later say they arent updating because "no one has shown interest" than it is to actually do their job and make a good video game

[Damane]

because it's easier to throw a "job" into a set of cheap expendable content that they can later say they arent updating because "no one has shown interest" than it is to actually do their job and make a good video game

they could have made specific spell sets for various roles when entering a duty/endgame. Makeing it the first flexible role job. wanna join as a close combat melee, auotmaticly equip set A, wanna be a healer automaticly equip set B,wanna be a Tank automaticly equip set C and so in, while giving you the freedom of equipping whatever you want when you are solo and not in a endgame duty.
would it be hard to do? maybe. impossible to do? nope.

The job might as well not exist, because it cant join current/relevant endgame content in a MMORPG... the MM stands for M&Ms of course


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[Corrderio]

Ah right I forgot about the whole combo crap in this game. Either way still seems like a weak excuse.

If they ever do another FF MMO I really hope they don't have Yoshida direct it. I'll give him credit it took balls to salvage V1 into what the game is today, but he isn't cut out for MMO design.

[Fiye]

I'd be surprised to hell if Square Enix thought about making another MMORPG. They already got 3 subscription based games running.