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  1. #1
    Relic Horn
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    Killer effect testing

    Okay, so I did some more precise testing on killer effects. I used Weapon Bash and Founder's Breastplate, which adds (killer rate/2)% to your damage.

    First, to check whether Founder's Breastplate rounds or not:

    Eschan Sorcerer, 3% killer rate from vorseals
    Base: 303
    Founder's Breastplate: 306 (+1%)

    So, it looks like Founder's Breastplate rounds the damage down to the nearest percent.

    Now for the meat of my tests. I did tests on both non-NMs and NMs. Arcana Killer II was the only base level killer effect active.

    Sinister Seidel (non-NM)
    Base: 364
    Founder's: 382 (5% above base)
    Circle 418 (15% above base)
    Founder's/Circle: 468 (11.96% above Arcane Circle)
    Circle (Enhanced): 425 (17% above base)
    Founder's/Circle (Enhanced): 480 (12.94% above enhanced Arcane Circle)

    Arcana Killer II on non-NMs is 10% killer rate.

    14-15% rate for Arcane Circle
    16-17% rate for enhanced Arcance Circle


    Teekesselchen (NM)
    364
    374 (3% above base)
    400 (10% above base)
    428 (7.00% above Arcane Circle)
    404 (11% above base)
    436 (7.92% above enhanced Arcane Circle)

    Arcana Killer II on NMs is 6%.

    8-9% rate for Arcane Circle
    10-11% rate for enhanced Arcane Circle


    Due to the breastplate's flooring effect, I can't hammer down the circle effect further with these tests. Also, I don't have the numbers written down anymore, but they're much simpler tests due to not involving Arcane Circle, so I'll put this conclusion down too:

    Killer effects from food are halved on NMs.


    Tests to be done: check whether vorseal killer rates are nerfed on NMs (I've confirmed that they're not halved, but 3% > 2% is still possible with my numbers), and to use an odd value source of killer rates to nail down circle effects more exactly.

  2. #2
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    From what I understand, Founder's Breastplate's effect is identical to BST's empy body, which has a lot of testing already. I think you should be able to pin down values and get around the flooring if you can get total Killer Effect values that are divisible by 6 for each category. There are a few cheap buyable items with 1%-3%(and Jack-o-lanterns give +4).

    EX: Killer+30 total w/ Founder's should be dmg+15% vs non-NM and dmg+10% vs NMs from what other testing has shown.

    I don't know DRK very well.. Does Weapon Bash+ from gear get applied before or after mods like the Founder's? If it's before, could try including some to change the possible base to make mathing easier. If you could push the base damage up to 400 (or down to 300), then it should give pretty conclusive results I'd think.

  3. #3
    Relic Horn
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    All of the info on the BST empy body I've found just says it gives 50% the intimidate rate as damage, with no description of NMs changing that relationship, same as Founder's breastplate. Source on it being 1/3 on NMs?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    All of the info on the BST empy body I've found just says it gives 50% the intimidate rate as damage, with no description of NMs changing that relationship, same as Founder's breastplate. Source on it being 1/3 on NMs?
    It's the killer effect itself that gets reduced vs NMs.

  5. #5
    Relic Horn
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    So do you have a link to testing that NMs reduce killer effects by 33% across the board?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    So do you have a link to testing that NMs reduce killer effects by 33% across the board?
    https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/4...pendium/#trait

    BST Empy body in particular is right there, plus same 1/3 reduction applies to Killer Instinct, and other circles IIRC.

    Vaguely remember actual reported testing somewhere in that beast of a thread, but could be mistaken since it's been a long time since I read the whole thing. Even if not, I can't help but trust Falkirk since he seems to know BST rather well.

    I'm all for verification though. Just figured that my suggestions could help you eliminate rounding issues. Plus, if you did manage to test with 300/400 base dmg, and things didn't match up to the expected values, then we'd know something needs to be looked at more carefully.

  7. #7
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    Braden did similar testing back in 2016, if you'd like some additional confirmation.
    Byrth and I did some tests back in 2011 on the subject, but it's buried on Allakhazam somewhere.

    Thanks for doing the testing and sharing with us - maybe this can be put on BGwiki somewhere for visibility if it hasn't been already?
    I see it gets a small mention on the Damage Taken page, but nothing about decreased potency vs NMs.

  8. #8
    Ridill
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    There is also it just not working at all in dynamis. I could swear Byrths tests actually used some food though

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    There is also it just not working at all in dynamis. I could swear Byrths tests actually used some food though
    That would most likely have to do with simply the settings used for the mobs in question. I know I've read elsewhere that Dyna mobs are special and theorized to be: untyped (no family/species so killer effects would not apply at all), oddly typed (all monsters typed as beastmen, which would dodge all natural killer effects), or uniquely typed (all monsters typed as "dynamis" or the like, again dodging all natural killers.) I know that I have intimidated mobs before in Dynamis as BST/NIN, but probably just as many Quadav as Scorpions and likely due to straight "Killer effects+" from gear rather than anything natural to the job.

  10. #10
    Yoshi P
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    Could check with monster correlation with blu if you wanted to make sure, breath spells are constant otherwise (if you keep your hp the same) barring resists.

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