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  1. #2981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serra View Post
    Smart enough to look a few posts up.

    Power creep isn't just players becoming stronger, it's also enemies becoming stronger. If they buff every perk to be equal to the perks that increase damage by over 50%, they have to buff enemies to counter that. The problem with power creep, especially in a game like Destiny which doesn't really have activity progression and has every player doing the same activities, isn't what it does to the best player's running the best gear/strategies. If enemies and encounters become stronger, those players will be fine. But what about the players who don't have those advantages? It is literally the problem that Bungie said broke their design philosophies with Reckoning this year (and, to a lesser extent, I'd argue Heroic Menagerie).
    I figured it went without saying but I never said they had to be equal, but I understand that feels like a cop-out so I'll (try to?) explain. I said toned up, my intent was them to be more competitive, but I do understand how it would be difficult to balance these perks against ones that straight up just boost damage, especially since they were claiming these perks made some Exotics feel not powerful(probably cause those Exotics sucks but lets not touch that I guess)... Some of them could just straight up use reworks, especially on PC where "Stability" is arguably only useful on Pulse Rifles. I mean, lets be honest, them Nerfing the damage ones are going to make these perks not "Shard on contact"

    Air Assault
    Box Breathing (arguable)
    Dynamic Sway Reduction
    Any "Explosive" Perks (Timed Payload, etc) (To Specify, if you're landing body shots, its a bonus, but if you're landing precision, its a huge nerf since Explosive damage doesn't crit)
    Field Prep
    Firmly Planted
    Mulligan (I guess if your aim is bad this ones good)
    Opening Shot
    Pulse Monitor
    Sneak Bow
    Tap The Trigger
    Threat Detector
    Under Pressure

    Because these perks just aren't good, you can like them and I'm not saying you can get 0 value from them or personal preference(like the Handling ones), but they are either extremely situational or offer no readily noticeable effect, or have other perks that do their job better more reliably (reloading and Outlaw/Drop mag) I'd also like to point out i'm talking from a PvE perspective, fuck if I know PvP God Rolls, pretty sure Rampage was shit in PVP though. This nerf doesn't make these traits more competitive, it just makes the "Good Traits" worse.

    Also not to nitpick, but I think, in context, when they were referring to the content like Menagerie and Year2+ they were talking about shit like Lunafaction Boots/Infinite Ammo/Damage Boost Stacking/That Shotgun ... All of which they already nerfed thoroughly (and nerfs I can to nearly all extents come to agree with). Most of these perks only ever helped with clearing adds and not killing bosses, what with many if not all of them having the requirement of "Getting a kill" to activate. So really all they've done is nerfed add clearing even more, and thats about it, cause this doesn't make other perks look better, it just makes all guns less powerful overall.

    If you so wish it, i'm going to let you have the last word here cause I just want to get back to checking this thread for Destiny news and not being yelled at for hating huge sweeping nerfs... I'm too old for this, especially if Sparky wakes up. That and I feel like I've said everything I need too and we'd just be "Opinion slapping" eachother in circles here. plus ya'll always get so fucking angry when someone disagrees with you it just hurts my feelings
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  2. #2982
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6souls View Post
    On the plus side, it offers a nice 1920x1080 background - https://www.bungie.net/pubstatic/Sta...&av=3577758857
    It's probably been mentioned previously, but that ring around the moon is the same ring that can be found at the bottom of the Oracle Engine in the Dreaming City and in Mara Sov's chamber.
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  3. #2983
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  4. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    I figured it went without saying but I never said they had to be equal, but I understand that feels like a cop-out so I'll (try to?) explain. I said toned up, my intent was them to be more competitive, but I do understand how it would be difficult to balance these perks against ones that straight up just boost damage, especially since they were claiming these perks made some Exotics feel not powerful(probably cause those Exotics sucks but lets not touch that I guess)... Some of them could just straight up use reworks, especially on PC where "Stability" is arguably only useful on Pulse Rifles. I mean, lets be honest, them Nerfing the damage ones are going to make these perks not "Shard on contact"

    Air Assault
    Box Breathing (arguable)
    Dynamic Sway Reduction
    Any "Explosive" Perks (Timed Payload, etc) (To Specify, if you're landing body shots, its a bonus, but if you're landing precision, its a huge nerf since Explosive damage doesn't crit)
    Field Prep
    Firmly Planted
    Mulligan (I guess if your aim is bad this ones good)
    Opening Shot
    Pulse Monitor
    Sneak Bow
    Tap The Trigger
    Threat Detector
    Under Pressure

    Because these perks just aren't good, you can like them and I'm not saying you can get 0 value from them or personal preference(like the Handling ones), but they are either extremely situational or offer no readily noticeable effect, or have other perks that do their job better more reliably (reloading and Outlaw/Drop mag) I'd also like to point out i'm talking from a PvE perspective, fuck if I know PvP God Rolls, pretty sure Rampage was shit in PVP though. This nerf doesn't make these traits more competitive, it just makes the "Good Traits" worse.

    Also not to nitpick, but I think, in context, when they were referring to the content like Menagerie and Year2+ they were talking about shit like Lunafaction Boots/Infinite Ammo/Damage Boost Stacking/That Shotgun ... All of which they already nerfed thoroughly (and nerfs I can to nearly all extents come to agree with). Most of these perks only ever helped with clearing adds and not killing bosses, what with many if not all of them having the requirement of "Getting a kill" to activate. So really all they've done is nerfed add clearing even more, and thats about it, cause this doesn't make other perks look better, it just makes all guns less powerful overall.

    If you so wish it, i'm going to let you have the last word here cause I just want to get back to checking this thread for Destiny news and not being yelled at for hating huge sweeping nerfs... I'm too old for this, especially if Sparky wakes up. That and I feel like I've said everything I need too and we'd just be "Opinion slapping" eachother in circles here. plus ya'll always get so fucking angry when someone disagrees with you it just hurts my feelings
    This entire argument is absolutely silly. I mean yes, Perk tiers NEED to exist. You need shit perks, you need mediocre perks, and you need good perks. Tiers change depending on weapon type and there are tons of good, mediocre and shit perks in Destiny 2. The problem that needed sorting was there was a gulf between how good the best perks were compared to the remaining "good" perks. Some of those shard on contact perks you've listed are fucking S tier in PVP.

    Box Breathing: Deleting supers
    Any "Explosive" Perks: Flinch.
    Firmly Planted: Sliding into engagements with ohk weapons
    Mulligan: Lets you take risks ala revoker.
    Opening Shot: A fucking godlike perk for pvp engagements
    Tap The Trigger: I can tell you don't use fusion rifles.
    Threat Detector: See firmly planted and needing to bait corners, weapon type determines how you bait.
    Under Pressure: Baller on ever low ammo energy weapon in PVP.

    Buffing the good perks does not solve anything but increase the gulf between good and mediocre, as it stands mediocre perks are things you can live with if you have 3 of four god rolls.

    Nobody is relying on rally barricade to kill basic shit. Normal mobs are piss easy, especially in the GL and machine gun heavy meta (also explosive perks), or you can run past them. Rally and luna is swapped to for dps phases basically. Now we can look at other perks besides rampage since it is no longer the end all be all. Buffing good perks to the same tier as say, rampage trivializes the damn game. It's why menagerie is built the way it is, it's my reckoning was so fucking tedious unless you railroaded one strat.
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  5. #2985
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  6. #2986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    I figured it went without saying but I never said they had to be equal, but I understand that feels like a cop-out so I'll (try to?) explain. I said toned up, my intent was them to be more competitive, but I do understand how it would be difficult to balance these perks against ones that straight up just boost damage, especially since they were claiming these perks made some Exotics feel not powerful(probably cause those Exotics sucks but lets not touch that I guess)... Some of them could just straight up use reworks, especially on PC where "Stability" is arguably only useful on Pulse Rifles. I mean, lets be honest, them Nerfing the damage ones are going to make these perks not "Shard on contact"

    Air Assault
    Box Breathing (arguable)
    Dynamic Sway Reduction
    Any "Explosive" Perks (Timed Payload, etc) (To Specify, if you're landing body shots, its a bonus, but if you're landing precision, its a huge nerf since Explosive damage doesn't crit)
    Field Prep
    Firmly Planted
    Mulligan (I guess if your aim is bad this ones good)
    Opening Shot
    Pulse Monitor
    Sneak Bow
    Tap The Trigger
    Threat Detector
    Under Pressure

    Because these perks just aren't good, you can like them and I'm not saying you can get 0 value from them or personal preference(like the Handling ones), but they are either extremely situational or offer no readily noticeable effect, or have other perks that do their job better more reliably (reloading and Outlaw/Drop mag) I'd also like to point out i'm talking from a PvE perspective, fuck if I know PvP God Rolls, pretty sure Rampage was shit in PVP though. This nerf doesn't make these traits more competitive, it just makes the "Good Traits" worse.

    Also not to nitpick, but I think, in context, when they were referring to the content like Menagerie and Year2+ they were talking about shit like Lunafaction Boots/Infinite Ammo/Damage Boost Stacking/That Shotgun ... All of which they already nerfed thoroughly (and nerfs I can to nearly all extents come to agree with). Most of these perks only ever helped with clearing adds and not killing bosses, what with many if not all of them having the requirement of "Getting a kill" to activate. So really all they've done is nerfed add clearing even more, and thats about it, cause this doesn't make other perks look better, it just makes all guns less powerful overall.

    If you so wish it, i'm going to let you have the last word here cause I just want to get back to checking this thread for Destiny news and not being yelled at for hating huge sweeping nerfs... I'm too old for this, especially if Sparky wakes up. That and I feel like I've said everything I need too and we'd just be "Opinion slapping" eachother in circles here. plus ya'll always get so fucking angry when someone disagrees with you it just hurts my feelings
    you guys are mean and i talk out my ass half the time wah wah, I'm taking my ball and going home
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  7. #2987
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    I mean if I could only ever get one kill before dying in PVP, I'd call outlaw shit over there, along with kill clip and rampage.
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  8. #2988
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerx View Post
    you guys are mean and i talk out my ass half the time wah wah, I'm taking my ball and going home
    Tyical Killer.
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  9. #2989
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerx View Post
    you guys are mean and i talk out my ass half the time wah wah, I'm taking my ball and going home
    Sparky, why are you so insecure? Talk to me.
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  10. #2990
    I trusted Zet and this is what happened
    Eleven owes me $40 bucks

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  11. #2991
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    I am just getting into Destiny lore. Is this going to be the story of Destiny 1 or Destiny 2 or all of it? Should I avoid it because Destiny 2 spoilers? Is Destiny 1 like XIV 1.0 in that you can't ever get the story again unless you go back and watch youtube videos of cutscenes or lore fans telling the story or does Destiny 2 do a good job of explaining everything?
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  12. #2992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    I am just getting into Destiny lore. Is this going to be the story of Destiny 1 or Destiny 2 or all of it? Should I avoid it because Destiny 2 spoilers? Is Destiny 1 like XIV 1.0 in that you can't ever get the story again unless you go back and watch youtube videos of cutscenes or lore fans telling the story or does Destiny 2 do a good job of explaining everything?
    Destiny 1 is still live and all content is playable there AFAIK.
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  13. #2993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    I'd also like to point out i'm talking from a PvE perspective, fuck if I know PvP God Rolls, pretty sure Rampage was shit in PVP though. This nerf doesn't make these traits more competitive, it just makes the "Good Traits" worse.
    This is really the issue here. I consider myself a primarily PvE player, but like Demos mentioned, a lot of those "shit" perks are actually useful in PvP. It's going to be hard to have perks that are going to be good/great in both because the play styles are so different, same when it comes to doing PvE stuff.

    Some people also like certain perks/setups that aren't meta. Personally, when everyone was running around with Skull of Dire Ahamkara for near infinite Nova Bombs, I was running around with Contraverse Hold because of the setup I had for it. Was it better? Probably not, but I enjoyed it more, so that's what I ran for anything that didn't need Well. Same with

    Seeing the nerfs on paper sucks, but at this point all we can do is wait and see. If certain things end up being as bad as expected, then new weapons/perks will become meta. And if you're doing general PvE, use what you like regardless of the power level. The only time meta really matters is in Raids (to a certain point) and PvP, but even then you can get away with whatever if you're good with said weapon.

    I'd also like to point out that the current Tier 1 loadout has 0 perks listed. I love Recluse + Mountaintop, but they overshadow every other weapon for the majority of content currently, so I won't be sad to see them go. Variety is the spice of life or something.

    tl;dr - Wait and see. Not every perk is for everyone/everything.

    P.S. Killer is still a scrub that has to bully people with Fists of Havoc.
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  14. #2994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenka View Post
    I am just getting into Destiny lore. Is this going to be the story of Destiny 1 or Destiny 2 or all of it? Should I avoid it because Destiny 2 spoilers? Is Destiny 1 like XIV 1.0 in that you can't ever get the story again unless you go back and watch youtube videos of cutscenes or lore fans telling the story or does Destiny 2 do a good job of explaining everything?
    The physical lore books might be worth looking into. I have the first one, but haven't gone through it yet. The 2nd one should be releasing soonish™. Destiny 1 in general was pretty bad when it came to lore in game.
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  15. #2995
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    This one came out before D2 and I've heard is a good summary of all the stuff in D1 and earlier:


    To answer your question though, D2 references a lot of the lore elements in D1, but doesn't really get into much. While you could go back and play D1, a lot of the lore isn't available anymore since the grimoire cards were taken down. Also, there is lore in D2 that is not available anymore since it is from gear that's no longer available..
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  16. #2996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomiko View Post
    This is really the issue here. I consider myself a primarily PvE player, but like Demos mentioned, a lot of those "shit" perks are actually useful in PvP. It's going to be hard to have perks that are going to be good/great in both because the play styles are so different, same when it comes to doing PvE stuff.

    Some people also like certain perks/setups that aren't meta. Personally, when everyone was running around with Skull of Dire Ahamkara for near infinite Nova Bombs, I was running around with Contraverse Hold because of the setup I had for it. Was it better? Probably not, but I enjoyed it more, so that's what I ran for anything that didn't need Well. Same with

    Seeing the nerfs on paper sucks, but at this point all we can do is wait and see. If certain things end up being as bad as expected, then new weapons/perks will become meta. And if you're doing general PvE, use what you like regardless of the power level. The only time meta really matters is in Raids (to a certain point) and PvP, but even then you can get away with whatever if you're good with said weapon.

    I'd also like to point out that the current Tier 1 loadout has 0 perks listed. I love Recluse + Mountaintop, but they overshadow every other weapon for the majority of content currently, so I won't be sad to see them go. Variety is the spice of life or something.

    tl;dr - Wait and see. Not every perk is for everyone/everything.

    P.S. Killer is still a scrub that has to bully people with Fists of Havoc.
    Aye, though my consideration to buff less desirable perks would only help off meta players. But you’re right, balancing PvP and pve is very difficult, I don’t envy their task.

    Anyway, as far as the nerfs go best results I could find say rampage will be nerfed by about half. They mentioned bringing it in line with PvP values and PvP values have been shown to be about half potency of Pve. So instead of 67 it’s about 32% at 3 stacks now. Not nearly as bad as 15% in D1.

    I got nothing on the others but kill clip and etc are probably getting a 50% nerf as well, which eh, I’ll live with it.

    Speaking of off meta, I mean, I’m right there with you... I still enjoy my Mida and Suros Regime lol. Not to mention have you tried Sealed Ahamkara grasps for Hunter? They’re so good and I never realized, they reload your weapon on any Melee damage including dots from burn or smoke.
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  17. #2997
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    Near the five minute mark is a huge fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

    I was under the impression that power ammo was going to more resemble D1 (one spawn all match, team can all get ammo). That's not the case according to Datto -- he says it spawns multiple times a match (four?) AND everyone on the team can get it. Admittedly it's an old build and next week might be different, but if not, they took the power ammo problem and made it so much worse..........
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  18. #2998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiye View Post
    Destiny 1 is still live and all content is playable there AFAIK.
    Oh, I was under the impression it was defunct for some reason. But if D1 doesn't really do the lore ingame that well I guess videos will do, thanks. There's just like...so much of it lol. That video is hard to follow.
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    Destiny's lore is surprisingly dense for how bad they were at conveying it in D1 (and arguably still in D2..). Back in D1 you did things in game to unlock lore, and then had to go to Bungie's website to read it. All that stuff got taken down with the release of D2, although it is available through a third party site. They've done a better job of including all in-game now, but it's still the same structure (do things to unlock, read a wall-o-text).
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  20. #3000
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    Also, thread is huge, new thread:
    https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...69#post7259469

    I wasn't waiting to do this.. you were waiting to do this!
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