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  1. #21
    E. Body
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    Quote Originally Posted by atom0s
    I'm not saying there has never been good discussions, data analysis or anything of that sort, it's just that those threads are hugely out-weighted by the number of childish antics, drama, name-calling and other garbage that really doesn't belong.
    have you been to ffxiah

  2. #22
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyte View Post
    have you been to ffxiah
    Just to add, FFXIAH bullshit is second only to Reddit quality FFXI posts.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    -You seem to cap hate easily and often.
    Maybe pre-adoulin enmity rules? Monster level and blahblah, you know what I'm talking about.

  4. #24
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    Pre-adoulin enmity rules would not cause a non-DDing Geo to pull hate in any situation other than everyone else dying.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Maybe pre-adoulin enmity rules? Monster level and blahblah, you know what I'm talking about.
    I really don't. :3 Being gone for 2.5 years kinda degraded my memory of some things. There's so many aspects and mechanics that I've forgotten, and some new tactics I'm having to learn. It blew my mind that Pup was even being used for anything. I thought maybe that was behind the wonky hate but I was told the automatons hold hate just fine until it's capped.

    It's possible that there's a hate mechanic mixed in with the 70% and below mechanics. Perhaps taking part in the SC/MB gains higher hate than normal or something.

  6. #26
    i should really shut up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sechs View Post
    Maybe pre-adoulin enmity rules? Monster level and blahblah, you know what I'm talking about.
    I take the simpler school of thought. Monster is level 99 with inflated stats, something they already have do. Anything else they did such as rapid decay or resets is a cherry on top of that. Haven't done the content at all, but just reminding people of the things we forget. Shit, I had to go look it up exactly.

    Remember these enmity updates from 2014/'15:


    Enmity generated from dealing damage to enemies of level 100 or greater no longer accumulates as quickly.
    Enmity will now decrease based on the gap between player/pet level/item level and monster level.
    * Abilities that generate a fixed amount of enmity, such as healing magic and elemental magic, are exempt from this change.

  7. #27
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    I don't know my way around, and I'm still sleepy atm but I recall there was something very different about enmity generation and retention that changed a lot between post Adoulin content (where stuff was working as intended! ) and preadoulin stuff where you would reach the enmity cap much sooner.

    This is quite evident when using trust tanks. In post adoulin content they can hold mobs decently fine, in preadoulin stuff 2 WS and hate is all over the place.
    This has created several issues in content like UNMs and BCs, because they are "pre adoulin areas" and nothing could be done about the way monster level, ilevel and the "new" enmity rules (they were modified in late 2014 iir? Probably the links Spicy posted above) interact with each other.

    I know this sounds confusing but I'm confident someone will make my shitty post more useful by correcting me.

    My point was that, maybe, this is the case for this new Mimic monster as well? Altough Fwahm made a nice point. Even taking into consideration the "old zone" situation, a GEO shouldn't be pulling hate SO easily.

  8. #28
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    IIRC there were two enmity patches. The first enmity patch adjusted the CE and VE values of most actions (including damage and healing). I think there was a second patch that basically made it easier to hold hate again. At some point they also increased the equipment enmity cap to +200 from +100.

    Here are the notes from the first patch:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post402769

  9. #29
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    Yeah but what is this difference I can vaguely remember about ilevel affecting how enmity works and making it fine in newer zones, but pretty awful in old ones?
    I remember reading lots of details about why that happens, but I can't remember them right now.

  10. #30
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    I'm not going to bother going through and finding the patch notes for each, but the following are things that they have done since the release of Seekers, roughly in order of release. Some of these may have been done simultaneously:

    -A reduction in the amount of enmity accrued through damage
    -An increase in the +enmity cap from gear from 100 to 200
    -An increase in the amount of enmity generated from some or all PLD JAs
    -A reduction in CE decay from damage taken when wearing +enmity gear
    -An increase to the CE/VE caps (10k/10k to 30k/30k)
    -A reduction in the amount of enmity accrued from damage, scaling with monster level

    An indirect enmity adjustment, which ties into the last bullet point, was the 1) lack of level correction in Adoulin zones from release, 2) the pseudo removal of level correction for all content released in older zones, post Seekers, and 3) the true removal of level correction in the Legion zone, for use in Ambuscade

    2) comes with the implication that all post-Seekers monsters in older zones are level 99 with +stats, ilvl gear-style, in order to make damage calculations more uniform with Adoulin content. This in turn also makes tanking awful due to the enemy effectively still being "low-level" for enmity generation purposes.

    They fucked around with enmity from restorative magic too at some point but I forget the details; it may have been done via 2 patches, one of which coincided with the first bullet (I recall the first adjustment not being a severe enough reduction relative to the amount of damage being done at the time).

  11. #31
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    I don't get (but I used to!) how this makes tanking new mobs in older areas (like UNMs for instance) much harder than in new zones.
    What's the key factor making it different in older areas? The difference is huge.

  12. #32
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    The larger the gap between your level and the mob's level, the less enmity damage gives you. However, as old zones still have level correction (well, the part that wasn't removed completely), endgame mobs are level 99 with inflated stats, so you get way more enmity per damage dealt compared to Adoulin mobs.

    Hypothetical scenario with made up numbers:

    10,000 damage WS on Neak (ilvl 145, level 145): 200 enmity
    10,000 damage WS on Tumult Creator (ilvl 145, level 99): 2000 enmity

    Meanwhile, all of the enmity that tanks get from JAs and Spells are exactly the same on Tumult Creator, plus the enmity cap is even lower in comparison.

  13. #33
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    Aaah, clearer now, thanks Fwahm.
    While this probably isn't the sole reason Mimic's hate is wonky, I guess he does fall down under the second category though?

  14. #34

    Didn't Death Trap from the older mimics basically function as a hate reset? That carrying over to these newer versions wouldn't surprise me all that much, even if only partial.

  15. #35
    Can you spare some gil?
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    Never had problems with hate, just hitting enmity cap very easily causing blender box to occur.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwahm View Post
    The larger the gap between your level and the mob's level, the less enmity damage gives you. However, as old zones still have level correction (well, the part that wasn't removed completely), endgame mobs are level 99 with inflated stats, so you get way more enmity per damage dealt compared to Adoulin mobs.

    Hypothetical scenario with made up numbers:

    10,000 damage WS on Neak (ilvl 145, level 145): 200 enmity
    10,000 damage WS on Tumult Creator (ilvl 145, level 99): 2000 enmity

    Meanwhile, all of the enmity that tanks get from JAs and Spells are exactly the same on Tumult Creator, plus the enmity cap is even lower in comparison.
    Actually, it's not the level gap. It's just the mobs level. A lvl 1 player, if they were somehow able to deal dmg to a lvl 150 mob, would receive the same enmity for doing dmg as a lvl 99 player.

    It's just target level that determines the dmg to enmity ratio. And the higher the level of the target, the less enmity generated by dmg. Same deal for Cure enmity. The ratio is based on the target's level, and the actor's level isn't factored in at all.

    EDIT: Hmm, should have read the whole thread before posting. lol. I completely forgot about the update spicy referenced. And that does pretty clearly state the the lvl/ilvl gap will influence enmity generation. Sure wish they'd tell us how much though.

  17. #37
    The Syrup To Waffles's Waffle
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    Death Trap is a hate reset to anyone hit.

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