Playstation 5 - Do you want fries with that? - November 12, 2020 - $399/$499

[Salodin]

Can you even use a dual shock 3 on ps4?

I don't think their BC is anything we've seen before. Nothing revolutionary, just on the backend it works differently so what they couldn't do before they can do now. If they choose not to lean into BC then they are the only console maker not doing so, and Sony always copies what its competitors are doing if they haven't already done it first.

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[Isiolia]

And they kind of have to. Xbox One and Switch can both play any game from any previous generation, the barrier of entry isn't the console itself but rather if the devs put the effort to add the game to the marketplace. Sony is the only one that cant do this at the moment and its noticeable.

I wouldn't say can't. They do, as mentioned, have a set of emulated PS2 titles available. There are plenty of HD ports of PS3 games too. It's not really a different situation than what the Switch has. Anything and everything you can potentially play requires a new license. While what'd truly constitute backwards compatibility would probably be a discussion unto itself, to me, licensing is what's most relevant here. From an end-user perspective, being able to pop in a disc they already own, or install and play a game they bought digitally on the previous generation is the key thing. Not necessarily the exact process in which that's made to happen. To that end, again, only MS is doing that. Sony's patents might indicate they plan to do it too, or they could just be there to make more older games available for sale on PSN.

[Salodin]

Are you including HD ports of ps3 games as backwards compatible? I don't, that's just a remake/rerelease. PS4 has PS3 backwards compatibility when you can play MGS4 on something that isn't a PS3.

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[Salodin]

I guess Nintendo did muddy the waters with how they did BC, but even with them forcing you to rebuy the games, at least the possibility in the hardware is there. To use MGS again cause it's the perfect example, Sony hasn't, and afaik they cant ever, make the ps4 run MGS4 on it.

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[Isiolia]

Are you including HD ports of ps3 games as backwards compatible? I don't, that's just a remake/rerelease. PS4 has PS3 backwards compatibility when you can play MGS4 on something that isn't a PS3.

No, I wouldn't include them. To be clear, I don't think having ports or new ways to buy/play those old games is a bad thing. Just that if a system states it's backwards compatible, then that implies being able to use the same content license (whether physical or digital) you already own on the new device. If you need to re-purchase it, then that's not the same thing. The difference between, say, replacing a VCR with a DVD player versus replacing a DVD player with a Blu-ray player, for example.

It's possible that they could add more features to the hardware to support better emulation - the Xbox One has that to a degree, to assist with how it accomplishes BC. I guess I just would assume that if Sony wanted to do that, there seems like there'd be little in the way of at least putting PS1 emulation back in.

[Spider-Dan]

There are compatibility issues in using a ps3 controller on ps4, atleast for ps4 games, no?

That doesn't necessarily matter, as the emulation layer should take the PS4 inputs and translate them to PS3 (in exactly the same sense that a Virtual Console NES game translates WiiMote inputs into a NES controller).

The exception would be games that require the pressure-sensitive buttons in the Sixaxis/DS3. DS4 removed those, so if a game cannot accept 0/100 digital values as a substitute, emulation won't work. But that hasn't seemed to be a barrier for PS2 games so far.

[Salodin]

No, I wouldn't include them. To be clear, I don't think having ports or new ways to buy/play those old games is a bad thing. Just that if a system states it's backwards compatible, then that implies being able to use the same content license (whether physical or digital) you already own on the new device. If you need to re-purchase it, then that's not the same thing. The difference between, say, replacing a VCR with a DVD player versus replacing a DVD player with a Blu-ray player, for example.

It's possible that they could add more features to the hardware to support better emulation - the Xbox One has that to a degree, to assist with how it accomplishes BC. I guess I just would assume that if Sony wanted to do that, there seems like there'd be little in the way of at least putting PS1 emulation back in.

That's fair, but I see BC as just having the ability to play older generation games regardless of license. If you have to rebuy the game to play its emulation, I still consider it backwards compatible even if you cant use your original media to play the game.

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[Spider-Dan]

That's fair, but I see BC as just having the ability to play older generation games regardless of license. If you have to rebuy the game to play its emulation, I still consider it backwards compatible even if you cant use your original media to play the game.

I'd actually say that the defining feature of "backward compatibility" is the ability to play the original media. I mean, it hardly seems reasonable to say that the Wii was "backward compatible" with the NES, SNES, Genesis, and TG-16, but it's perfectly reasonable to say it was backward compatible with the GC.

[6souls]

https://twitter.com/mochi_wsj/status...45990627631105



PS4 Pro Vs PS5

[Krandor]

So an SSD vs a 5400 RPM hard drive.

I feel like if this is the big example they're using to show how amazing the new hardware is, the end result is gonna be disappointing.

[DrClout]

Outside ofnsuper select titles this isn't doing much to bring me off my PC

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[Gryffes]

So an SSD vs a 5400 RPM hard drive.

I feel like if this is the big example they're using to show how amazing the new hardware is, the end result is gonna be disappointing.

Most consoles gamers havn't experienced an SSD, the load times will seem like magic for them.
The graphics bump is whatever, as long as sony lets people put out 30fps crap.

[Kalmado]

Outside ofnsuper select titles this isn't doing much to bring me off my PC

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Agreed. Even then it's difficult to play my PS4 as is. See below.

Most consoles gamers havn't experienced an SSD, the load times will seem like magic for them.
The graphics bump is whatever, as long as sony lets people put out 30fps crap.

Right now I'm playing Horizon: Zero Dawn and on PC Mafia 3. I had started the former about a week ago or so and after playing it multiple times the FPS didn't seem "that bad". I decided to fire up the latter and have binged that this week. My main monitor is 2560x1440 and 144hz ran by a Vega 56. I'm not sure what FPS I was getting but the game runs borderline perfect and I'm going to assume I'm getting around 50-60 fps with high texture, shadows, AA, etc. Yesterday I turned on Horizon and immediately noticed and hated the low FPS. I won't go as far to say the game is unplayable but it made the fun factor of playing go down significantly.

I don't have much interest in another console if it can't run high FPS consistently. Yeah I'm probably not the target market anymore. At this point I can't see shelling out for a console for a few exclusives when my overall experience on PC will be so much better.

[Madeline]

I moved to 144hz recently and I've become a total snob. 60 looks pretty bad now but it's fine and I can get over it. Anything less than that though..nah. I just wish they'd drop the gimmicks and give me a box that can rival a PC's experience. Never happen because cost though.

That said, they can sell this to me if it can play prior media formats so I'm not repaying for their backwards compatibility. I loathe busting out old hardware and an all-in-one box would be amazing. The WiiU is still the closest thing I've got to something like that. Again, I don't see it happening. The 3 suffers from architecture choice and I'd be amazed if it's supported. Cell processor emulation is..yeah. Guess they can call it BC as long as it plays PS4 games, but I hope for more.

[djzombie]

Most consoles gamers havn't experienced an SSD, the load times will seem like magic for them.
The graphics bump is whatever, as long as sony lets people put out 30fps crap.

This was the single biggest thing my friend (XBONE user) took away from playing games on my PC with me, and I didn't even have an SSD. He couldn't believe how much faster my PC loaded the same game at way higher fidelity than his console.

[Krandor]

Lower fps can be fine if the frame pacing is rock solid.
Spider-Man PS4 is a good example, it's the smoothest looking 30 fps I've ever seen and never feels problematic even as a primarily PC gamer.

The display in my current laptop is 144hz, but I have quite a few games I still cap at 60 with Afterburner because I'll take the rock solid stable frame pacing over the framerate jumping around. As much as people get hung up on just framerate, frame pacing is just as if not more important. Sadly UE4 has pretty garbage default frame pacing and most devs don't really bother to fix if it's not a fighting game.

[Kalmado]

This was the single biggest thing my friend (XBONE user) took away from playing games on my PC with me, and I didn't even have an SSD. He couldn't believe how much faster my PC loaded the same game at way higher fidelity than his console.

This is so true and I felt the same way on my very first PC build when all I was using was a 1TB WD Blue Caviar 7200 rpm drive. Over the last four years I've added on to my PC storage and a big surprise is using an 8TB Seagate "SMR" drive that is 5400 rpm. I originally bought it strictly for media storage because at the time of purchase $130 for 8TB was awesome. I put some games on it, notably Fallout New Vegas with a ton of mods to test load times. Absolutely zero complaints. I forget the source but I had done a ton of searching and also the link for the deal on slickdeals.net had people chiming in with links as to why large capacity 5400 rpm drives are not as slow as small capacity 5400 rpm drives. I rolled the dice and am satisfied with the purchase even though I have no hard evidence that the load times are not an issue.

About FPS, I agree with Krandor and frame pacing. I still find anything below 45 ish to be pretty bad. I'll sacrifice graphics if need be for the higher frames. A funny story is a friend of mine who is a lifetime console gamer converted to PC after much convincing. However, when watching me play a game using m/kb and how fast the screen can move in a shooter he says it makes his head hurt. Probably a bit of exaggeration but I found it funny.

[Krandor]

3.5" drives are generally going to have multiple platters which makes access times a whole lot better then the standard single platter found in 2.5"

[djzombie]

3.5" drives are generally going to have multiple platters which makes access times a whole lot better then the standard single platter found in 2.5"

Are 2.5" drives used in most/all consoles? Been a while since I opened one up. I know that's usually the size of a laptop hdd.

[Krandor]

IDK about the OG Xbox, but every other Hard Drive console has used the most budget model 2.5" drive possible.

Likewise, we're probably gonna see bargain basement QLC nvme drives in this next gen of consoles, it's the only way they'll even remotely keep the prices down. And even then you're still talking around $100 on just the storage.