{Spoilers} Avengers: Endgame - 6Souls Spoils Everything For Everyone

[Dantrag]

well sure, I’m doing it right now and I’m not even trying

Well I meant specifically time travel

[Salodin]

Also it's been 5 years yet Spiderman's best friend hasn't aged and is still in high school?

His friend was snapped too...?

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[ronin sparthos]

Also it's been 5 years yet Spiderman's best friend hasn't aged and is still in high school?

We have to presume the entire Homecoming mains (Flash, MJ, Ned, Pete) were snapped based on what we've seen in the Far From Home trailer.

[Anoat]

If you would have told the 2012 version of me that just watched Avengers that the Infinity Gauntlet saga would end in an epic two part movie I’d believe it—but I would have found it very hard to believe that four of the characters that got a majority of screen time and plot focus would have been Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Rocket Raccoon, and Nebula.

[ronin sparthos]

If you told me a rat would be the key to saving the universe I'd have thought you were fucking with me.

[Weltall]

I liked the Hawkeye parts a lot, but was falling asleep when it was Ant-Man focused.

[Thunder]

I'm not saying that anyone sides with him because of the Malthusian twist, I'm saying that making him an ideologically consistent zealot gives him a completely different characterization than just being a madman that wants to kill half of the universe to get lucky with Lady Death. Not only does he see himself as a savior, but a misunderstood one.

He takes everyone calling him "mad" to be their inability to understand. He alone can and will do what needs to be done.

What held IW back from "nailing" Thanos completely is that it needs to explain why he can't tell that his solution is pretty shitty from the literally infinite amount of ways he could fix the galaxy with all six stones in his possession.

Basically they nailed the Malthus aspect of his character but they needed more Two-Face to explain why a 50% random chance cull was essential. They needed to sell us more on his madness explaining the obsession with balance as the only solution.

2014 time jump Thanos' descent from 50% to flat out omnicide supplies the necessary megalomania insanity necessary to understand that he had drunk his own Kool-aid with thinking that the only solution was his failed proposal for Titan.

I agree with the entire post, basically (except for suggesting that the 50% wipage would benefit from a two-face'd style of madness associated with arbitrary balance, I don't see how that adds anything worthwhile tbh "oh he does it because he's crazy"). Simplifying his growth into nihilism and obsession with death to "wanting to fuck that lady" is a bit unfair but meh lol

More relevant to MCU, here's a new take I've come up with after reading your/my comments

it needs to explain why he can't tell that his solution is pretty shitty from the literally infinite amount of ways he could fix the galaxy with all six stones in his possession.

I think this is a fair point, however, if we could measure our grievances (with respect solely to MCU's malthusian motivation - I'm not considering my initial wanting of a thanos origin story here) in degrees of separation then I'm at 1 and you're at 2.

In IW we both agree they did a perfectly OK job at making him an "ideologically consistent zealot ... He alone can and will do what needs to be done." Dope.

Your concession to me is that the entire premise could be thrown away in lieu of "the literally infinite amount of ways ...". I don't want to go that far down the realm of possibilities. I'd like to just remain consistent with what the MCU has already laid out for us.
So I'm at accepting the 50% malthusian wipage as being ok IF in endgame Thanos keeps the stones and becomes the defacto ruler of the universe sowing togetherness, appreciation, and love by every now and then coming down from his throne to wipe 50% of life out. You've moved past this and focus on the other ways he could be able to provide the universe with resources to quell his desire of a "grateful universe"

Destroying the stones in the first act of endgame basically invalidates any way Thanos's motivations in IW make sense... kind of ruining the character. And then giving us a proud thanos giving nods of approval at his demise is just... what the fuck guys >.> thanos was ruined enough, quit beating him while he's down


Slightly unrelated to the above point, but I'm not even very satisfied with his realization that a 1 time 50% wipage of life was insufficient and moving onto 100% destruction of matter, creating a new universe, and creating life "that does not know what it has lost, but only knows what it has been given" is any better. It's a pretty shit plan too as life before the initial 50% wipage was literally right there in "not knowing what they've lost, but just what they've been given". It's similarly short sighted a plan as a 1 time 50% wipage! Thanos didn't learn anything!

My appreciation for the 50% wipe of life plan (so long as it is reoccurring and he is basically playing the old testament's god role) grows as I reexamine MCU's Thanos's motivations. In fact, if I knew the bible a bit more I'm sure I could quote flood stories, that guy who loses everything including his health and still worships god, etc that are a bit in line with Thanos's megalomanic desire to keep life grateful, appreciative, and loving through use of death/destruction. That's a pretty awesome villain, the old testament god personified

[Zealot]

I've just accepted that Thanos having a flawed and short-sighted plan and not being able to understand why as part of his character.

The dude is insane. I think people are thrown off because he's not the snarling, death-worshipping Thanos of the comics, but he's no less nuts. Sure, it looks like the MCU version of the stones are extremely limited in terms of how many times they can be used in tandem (just once means death for mortals, remember even touching the Power Stone by itself with bare hands was enough to kill most regular people) but he could have used his one "wish" to double the amount of resources. Or create an unlimited source of clean energy for all planets. Or make it so living things didn't need to consume to survive - any number of options but he's obsessed with his murder plan - because he's a crazy person -.

Trying to point out the holes in Thanos's reasoning is like talking to a flat Earth conspiracy theorist. Of course what you're saying makes sense to you, but to him you're just one more blind sheep who doesn't see the REAL truth like only he can.

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[Ksandra]

Trying to point out the holes in Thanos's reasoning is like talking to a flat Earth conspiracy theorist. Of course what you're saying makes sense to you, but to him you're just one more blind sheep who doesn't see the REAL truth like only he can.

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I agree with all you said. I've always gotten the impression that Thanos had a dream of the future, or something that has tunnel visioned into his plan (like even him accepting his death as something that was supposed to happen). It's possible the reset of the universe was his only thought that made sense based on said dream since his current interpretation didn't work to his satisfaction.


But yes, crazy is as crazy does, and it's silly to say "yeah but" in that situation.

[Thunder]

I think you two are conflating insane/crazy with stupid here. Flat earth is just dumb because we can do an experiment with shadows and towers, it's a little harder to "disprove" that a great tragedy would bring humanity more together (kind of like 9/11 brought the US, and more specifically NY together for quite some time - albeit at the cost of hating a particular group of humans from particular parts of the world). I think there's quite a bit of beauty to explore in positive consequences of tragedy with a character who's insane enough to accept the unacceptable cost of tragedies

Instead thanos is stupid villain number 12 in the MCU, lol. I think that's a waste, especially for the big culmination(?) of so many narratives. Also, a pretty big letdown to me personally since I seem to have subconsciously accepted that the route they're going with thanos is malevolent god, ala old testament, so him just being a floundering fool is a slap in the face that maybe neither of you guys have experienced

[Ksandra]

I miss the days of the 90s and earier movies when people didn't give that much a thought into the villain.

He got more backstory than he deserved, and he's not the hero.

[Thunder]

I miss the days of the 90s and earier movies when people didn't give that much a thought into the villain.

He got more backstory than he deserved, and he's not the hero.

um, to be clear, I'm not telling you or anyone else what they should have thought or felt about the movie

I think it's perfectly fine that you and zealot just accepted thanos's shortsightedness much like probably you and I have accepted certain other elements of the story that others find issue with

edit: goes without saying but I feel as I ought to, I appreciate the responses to my opinions and the discussions of others' opinions on the literary aspects of the story, I literally revisit a bunch of the "coolness" of the movie every time I read/respond to things and quite honestly I might enjoy the "thereafter" of discussing people's thoughts on the movie more than the movie itself, lol

[Salodin]

I think you guys underestimate how devastating ashing half of life in the universe is. Everything has to be redone. There is no magic industry that can keep things moving as norm after that. Economies are destroyed, there is not enough labor or expertise to approach anything near what you would have prior to the snap.

And thanos really had a problem with sentient life. If everything is in balance than nothing is expanding beyond carrying capacity. The problem comes when intelligence and sentience make it so you go so hard you destroy your own planet, alas his home world.

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[Mertron]

yeah but you could probably put 20 hobos in Mets uniforms and it would be the same product

[Salodin]

yeah but you could probably put 20 hobos in Mets uniforms and it would be the same product

Welp, I cant argue with this truth bomb. My b

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[Starby]

Glad I saw this this morning. Fucking google now was sending me spoiler articles while I was sitting in the theater.

The movie started slow for me. I was worried I wouldn't like it. Then the beheading happened and I was totally into it. I loved the extra scenes we got to see attached to past events. Cap with Mjollnir was the hypest thing ever. The Russo's have produced all my favorite Marvel films and this one was no different. I was giddy with excitement and then sobbing x 3000. I haven't felt that in a theater ever. Bravo marvel. Bravo

[Gredival]

Look you CAN accept a bunch of things if you want, looked Thanos being short sighted or the time loopholes.

What I'm saying is that these are the issues, the execution problems, of the film that prevent me from saying this is a perfect Marvel movie. That doesn't mean they didn't deliver an excellent film, three hours of enjoyment, lots of epic spectacle... But it ain't perfect.

I can separate my enthusiasm for what I'm seeing with my ability to judge what's going on.

Lots of movies can be great if you are willing to suspend certain amounts of disbelief. The Fast and Furious movies are great fun if you are going to accept that Vin Diesel can make earthquakes with his fucking foot, but since I realize that a really stupid level of disbelief I don't call F&F great film even if I have fun.

IW/EG aimed sky high and almost got a home run. With how high they aimed and the way they tried to do it, it's not surprising they didn't get a 10/10. Big scope makes it harder to stick the landing.

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[Mertron]

and let me tell you something, I saw a trailer for the lion king, and I’m pretty sure lions can’t talk

[Akiyama]

Enjoyed it a lot. Seeing the "Infinity War was better!!!!" as if like..okay, and? Me, personally, I enjoyed both immensely for various different reasons and I'm glad I got to experience it. Didn't check my watch once, and when it got toward the end, and I could feel it, I was like "Oh god no"

Paul Rudd killed it too. Honestly the whole cast had their time to do different varying things, and I just enjoyed it so much.

[Milkster]

What I'm wondering is how everyone is so quick to accept Banner's knowledge/theories on Time Travel as an absolute rule yet he couldn't even get the equation correct when testing on Ant-man and he had never time traveled or met anyone who had before.