{Spoilers} Avengers: Endgame - 6Souls Spoils Everything For Everyone

[Vaspinne]

Eh, you can still get away with out. All you need to know is quantum realm does voodoo time travel magic. Nothing else from the movie is really needed.

All the Quantum realm shit is established in AM2, let alone the scene when Scott gets trapped in it when the snap happens. I feel like you'd want to watch that movie at least (not really AM1). But different opinions differ I guess

[Tyrath]

All the Quantum realm shit is established in AM2, let alone the scene when Scott gets trapped in it when the snap happens. I feel like you'd want to watch that movie at least (not really AM1). But different opinions differ I guess

Quamtum Realm doesn't establish anything time travel related in Antman 2 aside from a one line about time vortexes. You don't need to know about it to be able to just pick it up and go in my opinion. And Scott being trapped is explained in the movie itself.

[Serra]

Well we don't know yet if there won't be any repercussions from it. The whole fight with Thanos in the present already broke those rules.

No it didn't?

The rules were that if you went back, it created an alternate timeline and because they were using the quantum realm to travel through space and time, they could go back to their present which is separate from the alternate timelines visited/created. Obviously it's not perfect, but the point of Cap going back was to return the stones (and hammer) to undo their changes to the alternate timelines (the Loki thing being the big issue, but we'll see if anything happens from that). Also, there's nothing about traveling forward discussed.

Again, if Cap just shows up back on the time travel machine as an old man, there's no problem. Him being on that bench at the end doesn't work.

[Anoat]

Kinda wonder where this leaves Agents of SHIELD. They either have to place it post Thanos snap and deal with the cloud of half the population gone, or set it post Tony snap and jump ahead five years in the timeline.

[Tyrath]

No it didn't?

The rules were that if you went back, it created an alternate timeline and because they were using the quantum realm to travel through space and time, they could go back to their present which is separate from the alternate timelines visited/created. Obviously it's not perfect, but the point of Cap going back was to return the stones (and hammer) to undo their changes to the alternate timelines (the Loki thing being the big issue, but we'll see if anything happens from that). Also, there's nothing about traveling forward discussed.

Again, if Cap just shows up back on the time travel machine as an old man, there's no problem. Him being on that bench at the end doesn't work.

Thanos from 2014 comes to the present and dies. Most of his conquest for the stones won't happen. He doesn't destroy Xandar for the Power Stone. He never collects all the stones. He never does the snap. How does this not break their rules about placing things back where they belong in the timeline?

[Krandor]

Thanos from 2014 comes to the present and dies. Most of his conquest for the stones won't happen. He doesn't destroy Xandar for the Power Stone. He never collects all the stones. He never does the snap. How does this not break their rules about placing things back where they belong in the timeline?

I guess they're just ignoring that one since they didn't actually cause that one, and that timeline would likely be better off without him around anyways.

[Gredival]

Well we don't know yet if there won't be any repercussions from it. The whole fight with Thanos in the present already broke those rules.

How? They establish things like time paradoxes don't work (or rather they handwaved it away). The only hard fast rule was that they had to return the stones back to their own time (which they only learn from The Ancient One) to prevent multiverse splinters.

The two divergent points are the alternate Avengers 1 where Loki took the Tesseract and the alternate Guardians 1 where Thanos and crew come from. They never resolve how this gets resolved, just that the stones cause time splinters.

So Cap living a different life in the past is a loophole that can be resolved.

But I don't think they put in the necessary groundwork to establish what I state is a change in Cap's character. It "feels" poetic, and it writes him off with a happy ending, but it doesn't pass muster for me. Endgame massively improves Iron Man's story by reinforcing the message of IM3 but it turns the strongest character arc of Cap into a weaker one.

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[Tyrath]

As funny as the movie shitting on other time travel movies was, whenever you involve time travel things become a mess and paradoxical. It's just something that is going to happen.

[Vaspinne]

Is it too much to ask to just sit back and enjoy the fucking movie and not get anally retentive and obsessive about every stupid little thing? I'm joining Salodin. I'm done with this thread you fucking miserable nerds.

[Tyrath]

I mean I fucking loved it and I don't care that the time travel doesn't make sense.

And Steve Rogers got a perfect happy ending.

[Serra]

Thanos from 2014 comes to the present and dies. Most of his conquest for the stones won't happen. He doesn't destroy Xandar for the Power Stone. He never collects all the stones. He never does the snap. How does this not break their rules about placing things back where they belong in the timeline?

He doesn't need to collect the stones or do the snap because it is effectively another Thanos. They created an alternate timeline when they went back to 2014 and that Thanos skipped ahead for the final fight.

[Gredival]

As funny as the movie shitting on other time travel movies was, whenever you involve time travel things become a mess and paradoxical. It's just something that is going to happen.

Yeah I agree. This is the best time travel plot I've seen executed but it's still problematic for me. I hate it as a macguffin and this movie does nothing to change my opinion that it's a really bad narrative cop out

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[Serra]

I mean I fucking loved it and I don't care that the time travel doesn't make sense.

And Steve Rogers got a perfect happy ending.

Hulk says at the end that it'll only be five seconds for them but as long as it takes for Cap. Steve could have gotten his perfect happy ending no problem and followed the rules they established if he just appeared on the machine -- he could have spent his life with Peggy in one of the alternate timelines, grown old with her, and then jumped back after she died.

[Kyte]

I interpreted the resolution for the time paradox as Thanos and whomever he brought with him were part of a closed loop. They were members of an alternate timeline that got resolved. Their loop was closed by Tony.

Past alternate Loki would presumably continue to exist in a splinter timeline of sorts starting in 2012, though you could handwave that away and say it was also destroyed by Tony's snap.

As part of this explanation, Steve would have existed as his future self throughout all of the other movies, and he and Peggy would have just kept it a secret. It's not directly stated, but part of his duty of putting things back would also have to include putting Mjollnir back. I remember it leaning against the platform but I can't remember if he grabbed it right before he time-leaped, or if his hand was even in-frame.

I don't think Steve deciding to just live his life breaks his character, though. At the end of the movie, he sees how many allies they've made and probably realizes that a guy that's just a bit stronger than other guys isn't as necessary as it once was for protecting the world, and that there are other good people that can take on his role (see: him giving the shield to Falcon).

[Cail]

Had a blast. I realized as soon as they split the teams up and we found out who was going to Vormir, that obviously Widow or Hawkeye were gonna die (though Im sure a bunch of people did). We knew people were going to be killed off. I'm kind of surprised it was so few. I figured Rhodes+Cap were going to die (though Cap is done now obviously). I thought Nebula/Thor/Tony/Hulk were wild cards and could go either way. Interesting that Vision is still gone seeing as how they have the WandaVision show (although maybe by bringing the stones back, Vision comes back and theres no Thanos to kill him, but who knows due to the whole time thing). Very surprised Widow dies, considering theres supposedly a BW movie coming, though it didnt occur to me until reading the posts in here that by returning the Soul, they may get a soul back. Green Banner was cool. Didnt see that coming at all and made his character more interesting. They used Marvel very little which surprised me. Was interesting how the unsnapped people got used in the big fight. Some you saw a bunch like Spiderman. Some you barely saw like Drax+Groot. Was cool seeing the Children of Thanos again as well.

The points that were meant for laughter were good and thinking back quick, came at appropriate times that I can recall. When they beheaded Thanos so fast, I was so shocked. Didnt know wtf to expect the rest of the movie. Seeing some of the old characters from movies past like Rene Russo and such were fun. Those scenes were pretty cool, especially the Hydra guys in the elevator.

[TummieGaruda]

Ok so the scene happened so quickly but was it implied that it was Deadpool who was harassing Thor and his friends in Fortnite?

[Kyte]

I didn't really get that impression but it's possible that it whooshed me.

[Cail]

Ok so the scene happened so quickly but was it implied that it was Deadpool who was harassing Thor and his friends in Fortnite?

I dont remember the dialogue honestly.

[Cail]

Also, I forgot to mention, Cap being "worthy" of Thor's hammer was just fucking awesome

[Gredival]

How did Thanos' crew jump to the future, they only had enough Pym particles to send Nebula back

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