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  1. #1
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    I need advice about testing students

    Sorry if this background is long:

    Our school recently switched our testing program and we give the students 4 times a year an interim test to see whether the students are learning the standards for ELA and math.

    Since the beginning, all the scores have been pretty terrible. I'm not going to whine about the test results, clearly we all need to figure out how to better prepare the students for them.

    The math students for the last test did amazing. My kids did poorly, again. I got pulled into the office yesterday to talk about my bad test sores. I am in big trouble and a constant theme was "The math department did great! They figured it out!"

    I know how the math department did great. They printed out the test ahead of time, gave it to the students piece by piece and taught the material of the test. THEN they gave their midterm with the exact same questions. THEN the kids took the interim test.

    My boss is "requiring" me to do these quick checks the interim test program "offers" yet I cannot find these quick checks anywhere and she just says "They're there somewhere." And I am supposed to retest the kids in two weeks.

    The math dept head came in today to give me "suggestions" per my boss which was to give the kids the test and answers ahead of time. She spoke frankly that, "If she wants good scores, give her good scores."


    I am so panicked by all of this. I do actually love the math dept head and she's been at the school forever. Snitches get stitches, anyway. Yet I will never ever be able to compare to her scores if she continues to do what she did.

    Note: I HAVE been teaching the students the materials, but somehow the translation from what I teach to these tests are not transferring over. I gave a midterm that had similar questions, and the kids did extremely well. And I AM taking responsibility for it. I just know I can't compete knowing this other info. It's overwhelming. I don't want to resort to what I consider cheating.

    tl:dr Teachers give an ELA/Math test 4 times a year. Math dept getting high praise for good scores, without boss knowing the kids got the answers ahead of time. I'm expected to have comparable scores to them. I don't want to cheat the system or be a snitch.



    What should I do?

  2. #2

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    you sure he doesn't know? serious question here.

  3. #3

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Just read the TLDR. Be a snitch. I'd rather my kid retake all the dumb ass tests, fail and be properly assessed to know where we need to work on rather than be lied to and further screw them up. I argue with my stepdaughter about math almost every night because her dad literally gives her the answers with half assed explanations and zero context. When she does the same work as me, it's either knowing the answer without doing any work or unable to do it because she "can't figure it out".

    Our country isn't setup to completely give handouts to the non-educacted and even the little they are getting now is quickly going away.

    My stepdaughter is in the 5th grade now preparing for NY ELA/Math tests coming in April. Of course I want her to do great but only if she does great not some teacher(s) looking to protect their status.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Ridill
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    Public school infrastructure, especially the shitass places ksandra works, aren't really setup for the fallout of being a snitch.

    Which is genuinely 50/50 that they force Ksan out because good money says this isn't a secret, it's "don't ask, don't tell"

  5. #5
    Sandworm Swallows
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    Being a teacher sounds awful.

    This just seems like a lose-lose situation either route you take.

  6. #6
    Hackey Thread Lurker since 2010
    I could have bought an 11 pull and have 1000 gems left over, but all I got was this silly title.

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    Reading this after reading an LA Times article - published this morning - about shit ass charter administrators who embezzle/launder public money - this is just a terrible catch-22. As much as you can report it to the district, they don't have the manpower to police all the charter schools.

    I'd say integrity is more important since not reporting is pretty much the math chair and/or school saying: "These students are going to fail but we need the money to stay open." I would think the majority of this board thinks Common Core/NCLB is a whole load of crap and "Teaching the test" is laughable. I have no idea how other teachers/administrators feel in that regard, but I would assume many in a position similar to this either feigned ignorance or resigned their integrity & ethics to keep a job.

    Though as a memory from my high school days, the valedictorian and I reported our entire AP bio class for cheating on the AP exam (we didn't) while risking our own scores being reported. I think everyone's scores were invalidated and College Board may have done some sanctioning but we don't know. Either the kids are going to learn to actually digest the material or learn to cheat their way through the system. How much the school enables that predicates which direction the kids will go.

  7. #7
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythiroth View Post
    Being a teacher sounds awful.

    This just seems like a lose-lose situation either route you take.
    I can't believe I've been put into this position. This is just awful, it's like my brain can't even process what is happening. I really don't know what to do.

  8. #8
    D. Ring
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    I work in higher ed and not K-12, but I'm with Sath on this one. .

    I've read a bit of what you've posted about work in the past but forgive me for blanking: You teach at a charter school, right?

    My leanings are 'be a snitch, but have an exit strategy', if that one's even possible.

  9. #9
    Member since 2006 and still can't think of a title.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Public school infrastructure, especially the shitass places ksandra works, aren't really setup for the fallout of being a snitch.

    Which is genuinely 50/50 that they force Ksan out because good money says this isn't a secret, it's "don't ask, don't tell"
    Thought Ksandra was teaching at a charter?

  10. #10
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Yes I teach at a charter. We are overseen by LAUSD.


    I ended up talking to the AP, who I feel more comfortable with. He didn’t know at all about the math stuff. I feel much better because at least someone in administration knows and maybe able to guide the math dept. away from it (again I think she’s awesome, I think she just didn’t want to deal with the pressure.)

    And this way at least if my boss continues to give me a hard time, the AP knows what’s going on.

    I am going to try and keep doing what I am doing and hopefully I’ll figure out how to get these kids on board the right way.


    Thank you, everyone!

  11. #11

    well, from my own memories of school, there were a few awesome teachers i had that helped me do well, by their teaching methods. for instance, an english teacher (or was it reading comprehension?) that would have us read some books on our own and we would discuss it in class (like orwell's 1984), how the character felt in certain parts of the plot, what something symbolized, etc. we'd also have books we'd read out loud in turns as a class, like lord of the flies, and do the stop periodically to do the same thing as we read along. the teacher would only hint at what certain things would mean or the like, most of the thinking and discussion was left to the class to figure out. i feel that really helped sink the material in, when it came time for writing book reports and tests.

    another class i loved was a history class. the teacher had a big booming voice and would talk about various historic events in detail. he didn't just dryly talk about the facts, he painted a vivid picture in our minds of what was going on, how the people probably felt, and so on. he also would quiz us in class often about what we discussed and read before class, and toss candy to people who guessed the right answers. that...naturally got a lot of volunteers to try answering. :D

    my best math teacher was one who didn't just make us do equations, but made the equations about silly things, like figuring out the volume of various alcoholic drinks in a a big vat. she would often joke and make us laugh, and that helped break up the monotony of the material and helped me stay focused.

    likewise for my science teachers, who often used humor as well as engaging our sense of wonder while teaching the material. (with flashy demonstrations, or how such and such formula is used in real life to do such and so thing.)

    so i guess the advice i can give is - make your class active participants, not just people having to digest a ton of facts without any idea how to use it. reward em for trying, even if it's just a piece of candy from one of those big bags of random sugary things. engage them with humor and wonder, relate the material to real life so they can see WHY they have to learn these things.

    don't be a teacher. be a storyteller.

  12. #12
    D. Ring
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    While a lot of those are good points and speaks to some basic principles related to "good" teaching (immediacy behaviors; connecting concepts with student interests; operating from a prior base of knowledge, etc.), I'm not sure if Ksandra was asking specifically for advice on teaching, so much as what to do about a situation being impacted by concepts outside of the classroom.

    In addition, I don't think we have enough information (unless you know about her and her classroom more than I -- which is fair: I don't post in this part of the forums often) about her students, teaching methods, etc. to really offer advice there.

  13. #13
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Yeah. I actually already do that a lot already, but that doesn’t really apply at all to the thread situation.

  14. #14
    Ridill
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    Psio writing a novel that is completely off-topic in my BG?

    It’s more likely than you’d think.

  15. #15
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    whats wrong with teaching to the test? imo your co worker isnt doing anything unethical- are you saying the kids dont know the material? if they've been tested on it 3 times and know it whats the problem?

  16. #16
    Hackey Thread Lurker since 2010
    I could have bought an 11 pull and have 1000 gems left over, but all I got was this silly title.

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    Math dept head was using the exact questions on the standardized test as practice materials and a midterm. That goes a bit beyond "teaching the test" if the kids can memorize the answers without knowing how to solve them.

  17. #17
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by synistar View Post
    Math dept head was using the exact questions on the standardized test as practice materials and a midterm. That goes a bit beyond "teaching the test" if the kids can memorize the answers without knowing how to solve them.
    Yeah. I asked the kids if they could tell me how they did well on the test. They told me the whole thing and even admitted “Honestly, I just memorized the answers.”

    Knowing question 3 is 34.5 doesn’t necessarily mean you remember how you got there.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psion View Post
    well, from my own memories of school
    Unfortunately (and I'm making what is probably a fair assumption based on the 'How old is BG' thread), most of us probably can't relate to the current education system.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    Public school infrastructure, especially the shitass places ksandra works, aren't really setup for the fallout of being a snitch.

    Which is genuinely 50/50 that they force Ksan out because good money says this isn't a secret, it's "don't ask, don't tell"
    This is the best analysis of poor Ksan's situation. Welcome to that education lyfe.

    Is your school exempt from state standardized tests? Cause the math dept. might be killing these tests they cheat on, but their students should be performing terribly on the actual test.

    I got nothing for you except lrn2play the teacher political game. Even in public school in Florida it's the same shit, some teachers doing shady things to get ahead and no one snitches unless they have the right people and influence behind them to fight back against the other group. Of course standardized testing in primary starts in 3rd grade here and there's no hiding from it, so teachers can get burned at the end of the year if they help their students cheat on the practice tests and they bomb the real one. At my gf's school last year a teacher got moved to a less consequential grade cause her test scores were horrendous even though her students seemed fine all year from their practice tests. Wonder why that happened...

    Really at some point you gotta stick up for yourself though. You won't beat the grades of a teacher helping her students cheat, so you gotta decide if you want to just go along with it or rock the boat and maybe your job security. Being a teacher ain't easy yo. I'd pick rock the boat, but only after your students showed improvement otherwise it just looks like you're bitching cause you can't keep up when really none of y'all can keep up lol.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    You've mentioned the math department; what department are you in? May help pull out some BGer's experiences. At least personally, great teachers had different tactics depending on their subject matter and focus.

    As far as the test situation, I'd side with others and say go the straight and narrow route. Maybe bring it up to the math teacher first to try and get her to work with you towards an actual solution. I don't have kids, but I think I'd be pretty pissed to find out they weren't as well off academically as testing had showed.

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