#46: Episode VI: Return of the Neolibs

[archibaldcrane]

Why are you celebrating that like its a good thing?? Dont you want people getting out of poverty because they got out of poverty self-sufficiently, not because the govt handed out a bunch of money??

I don't expect children (the group most likely to be in poverty) to pull themselves up by their boostraps, no, and providing money to people during a global pandemic that hugely drove up business closures and during which we want as few people associating with those out of their households as possible is a good thing.

All the stimulus and UI boost is ending this year, but hopefully we will take a little tip from up North and continue monthly checks to most families with children like Canada does, which will persistently reduce poverty below pre-pandemic levels.

[Day]

Why are you celebrating that like its a good thing?? Dont you want people getting out of poverty because they got out of poverty self-sufficiently, not because the govt handed out a bunch of money??

yeah but biden

[Kaslo]

Why are you celebrating that like its a good thing?? Dont you want people getting out of poverty because they got out of poverty self-sufficiently, not because the govt handed out a bunch of money??

Might I explain capitalism to you?

[Zealot]

Lol people in poverty getting out of it on their own.

How to spot someone who isn't American.

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[archibaldcrane]

But for anyone who wants to understand why Nynja's comment is mostly misguided, this article is an excellent breakdown of who is in poverty and how to get them out of it.

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org...fare-not-jobs/

tl;dr over 75% of people in poverty are non-workers, and 86% of non-workers are people we don't expect to work (children, elderly, disabled, caregivers, students) - so the amount that "just work more duh" can have on the poverty rate is quite limited.

You don't fix this with labor income - you fix it with the welfare state.

[NynJa]

yeah but biden

I'm goin with this lol

No ones expecting an 80 year old granny or a 10 year old kid to pull themselves up by them bootstraps. I do expect a broke ass 20-50 year old to get their ass moving.

[Zealot]

I don't know what 86% of 75% equals in terms of 100% but I'm confident enough in how numbers work to know it means majority of who you're talking about are the people you said you don't expect to work.

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[NynJa]

If there are 1,000,000 people in poverty, and 75% are non-workers (750,000) and 86% of that group are people we dont expect to work (645,000), that's still 355,000 people who are in their financial situation for reasons they can potentially control.

[Zealot]

Look at Mr. Metric system over here and his fancy math.

[zoobernut]

This discussion has come up time and time again here. Systems will never function at 100% efficiency. There will always be people who get caught up in a program (good or bad) that don't belong in that situation. It is impossible to be perfect. Better to help a huge group of people knowing that there is a small percentage that is gaming the system than not help anyone at all. Same philosophy that we use to justify having laws. We know there are going to be people who don't follow the laws and listen to them but better to have them in place and dissuade the larger group of people who will listen than not have them at all.

[Roranora]

If there are 1,000,000 people in poverty, and 75% are non-workers (750,000) and 86% of that group are people we dont expect to work (645,000), that's still 355,000 people who are in their financial situation for reasons they can potentially control.

hahaha how the fuck is poverty real haha nigga just make more money haha like nigga work harder

[Yabby]

hahaha how the fuck is poverty real haha nigga just make more money haha like nigga work harder

[Moss]

Also poverty has a strong correlation with crime rates. It's a net benefit to the state if you allocate money toward the root cause/preventive measure (reducing poverty) as opposed to the symptom (crime)

And these welfare checks go back into the economy etc etc

hahaha how the fuck is poverty real haha nigga just make more money haha like nigga work harder

Lmao

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[Kaslo]

Also poverty has a strong correlation with crime rates. It's a net benefit to the state if you allocate money toward the root cause/preventive measure (reducing poverty) as opposed to the symptom (crime)

And these welfare checks go back into the economy etc etcLmao

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[Cantih]

I still maintain that the biggest expenditure for anybody low income, is rent/housing.
Get that under control, and you open a lot of income to be used elsewhere.

[kuronosan]

I still maintain that the biggest expenditure for anybody low income, is rent/housing.
Get that under control, and you open a lot of income to be used elsewhere.

You aren't wrong, and a growing number of towns and cities are doing these apartment district things that suck up housing land, cost too much in rent, and lock you into increases in the name of market "competition". While true that homeowners don't have it easier because of taxes I don't believe renting is cheaper in the long run.

[Dimmauk]

All these business and real estate companies see middle to low income people are getting help, so they are increasing the prices on everything.

[Daydreamer]

If the estimates are to be believed my 350k house I bought last November is now 450k+. Housing is outrageous basically everywhere and it keeps getting worse. I would happppppily have my home value go down if it meant the market as a whole were fixed so most of my friends could actually afford a house vs an apartment.

[Daydreamer]

Also my home once I finally got it is still essentially cheaper than renting here (Austin) as the rent increases year over year have gotten insane for anything over like 1200 sqft.

[Day]

i want to buy a house kinda but looks like gonna have to wait on the crash