Challenge 36: Double Agents (premieres 12/9/20)

**Byrd** · 2021-02-24 17:51

I ... might have to get Paramount Plus.

Also, they're bringing back Road Rules.

Originally Posted by EW.com

It was also announced the beloved Road Rules franchise is returning with a brand-new cast of Road Warriors, 14 years after the original series ended. Per the description, "these strangers will be abandoned in a far-flung location and stripped of their modern-day luxuries by boarding a restricted life in an RV, traveling from location to location. They will be guided by a set of clues, odd jobs, and missions for money. If they last to the end of the trip, they walk away with the life changing prize."

**Vil** · 2021-02-24 18:54

Best part of the news being Road Rules! I don't expect it to have the charm of the old series, but I gave up on hope for that so long ago, when it seemed like AYTO was going to be sort of the companion show to RW.

**Vil** · 2021-02-24 20:53

Well that sucked. I don't think they had any idea how they wanted to put that exit together but it seemed like they had no idea what to do with her the entire season. At least she cried before walking. I think she did, at least.

"Give me the goof" followed by Aneesa's impression of it and them labeling him "The Goof" on screen was a great touch.

They didn't give Kyle a memo after that challenge a few weeks ago that he's no longer allowed to use his favorite P word? Darrell and Cory siding with that side is curious even though they did set that up. Then again, it's been unclear what Darrell's been doing most of this season and Cory has been too busy bouncing from partner to partner for me to really keep track of him.

At some point I looked at the clock and was like "did they give that boring challenge a ton of time?"

**Xno Kappa** · 2021-02-24 21:33

They really left it at the cliffhanger from last weeks preview lol.

**Byrd** · 2021-02-24 23:36

Originally Posted by Xno Kappa

They really left it at the cliffhanger from last weeks preview lol.

Yeah, they did. I guess I'm OK with one a season. A few seasons back, when they had two eliminations in the first episodes, or whatever, was just ridiculous.

Standings:

Spoiler: show

Scoring Notes:

Spoiler: show

General Notes:

Spoiler: show

Contestant Scores to Date:

Spoiler: show

**Moss** · 2021-02-25 00:27

Fuck cliffhangers, such an unsatisfying way to end an episode

Lolo was a huge letdown this season, I hope nam at least gets a chance for a skull

Darrell vote was lame. CT and Devin should've spent more time convincing him that it's a bad idea to be the bottom rung in the BB alliance and to join them instead

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**Vil** · 2021-02-25 06:56

That cliffhanger doesn't really bother me as there's a genuine question of what they're going to do with this. It's not a bad narrative pause, versus like "well, we did one elimination, but since Bananas is in the other, we're going to make you wait for that one".

If we're going to make a slight change to the episode, I'd have liked less time with the challenge and more with Cory and/or Darrell. Cory siding with Fessy shouldn't surprise me. Dude sided with Bananas last season over Ashley and while there were probably more people in the middle there, this just seemed to be him and Darrell. I'm not sure "mature Cory" plays better at all. He just doesn't light his game on fire in the first quarter anymore. He waits til late and/or puts himself behind the 8ball.

Have the power couple not been in deliberation the whole time and I just not noticed?

Yeah, the "deliberation" seems to be an official element of the game, so they're not there just like how tribunal people haven't been present for votes in some of the recent seasons.

**Moss** · 2021-02-25 09:33

My issue with the cliffhanger is that every episode builds toward an elimination

Nothing else happening in the episode is of any other consequence - e.g., winning a daily doesn't win your team money, or determine anything not related to the upcoming elimination. The entire episode is basically exposition showing every player's current status and why they want to win the day's daily (I need to protect my skull, I need to protect my partner from being stolen, I need to win so I can out myself in, etc)

So when you cliffhang right before the elimination, the episode has zero payoff. I have no problem with twists but I think it kills the momentum for that too because now I have a week to forget and not care about it

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**Byrd** · 2021-02-25 10:31

Originally Posted by Vil

That cliffhanger doesn't really bother me as there's a genuine question of what they're going to do with this. It's not a bad narrative pause, versus like "well, we did one elimination, but since Bananas is in the other, we're going to make you wait for that one".

Yeah, it didn't bother me as much as it has in previous times. I think there are three factors. First, they're few and far between and not every week or even multiple times a season. Second, as you said, it's a good place for a break as opposed to mid-elimination - remember that time they left the episode when both players were jumping for the elimination bell? Third, we technically did just have Lolo eliminated, so it kind of felt like there was an elimination. At least, from my scorekeeping bench, it felt that way.

That being said, I would rather them not having cliffhangers like that. One of the secrets to Survivor's success is that 99.9% of the time an episode ends with a tribal council and someone getting voted off. That consistent, dependable formula is what viewers expect and want to come back for.

Originally Posted by Vil

If we're going to make a slight change to the episode, I'd have liked less time with the challenge and more with Cory and/or Darrell.

Agreed. The daily challenge had at least two ad breaks. That's one too many for most challenges - the rare exception being, say, the three phase mud wrestling challenge from a few weeks ago. This didn't need that many breaks, or that many shots of asses in wetsuits. I'd much rather see more of the politics in the house, specifically Darrell. Or Nam. Or anybody except Josh, honestly.

That's it. Time for two hour episodes!

(Remember when episodes were only 30 minutes? How?)

Also, Josh is kind of a horndog. He seems to get away with it somehow. As much as the audience loathes him, significant portions of the cast really do seem to appreciate him - CT and Devin excepted. I guess that explains some of his victory on Big Brother - audience despises him, cast likes him. At least they liked him more than the other guy, which is sometimes all it takes.

**Moss** · 2021-02-25 15:09

Word on Reddit is that Lolo mentioned her mental health to production and they decided to have her leave

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**Byrd** · 2021-02-25 16:57

Originally Posted by Moss

Word on Reddit is that Lolo mentioned her mental health to production and they decided to have her leave.

There's a lot going on with Lolo. I'm sure she believes that about rigging the last challenge, but I just don't find her to be a reliable witness. It did seem like Big T dropped late, but who knows what the rules really are, and they do seem subject to change depending on who is committing infractions.

**Vil** · 2021-02-25 19:13

There are a lot of questions about the helicopter challenge. When did the clock even start? Was the helicopter stopping inside the "drop zone" or what? If it was, and you'd think it should, then holding on too late could mean losing your momentum, etc. I'm not even surprised by some of that stuff being alleged about redos and whatnot. Seems like kind of a janky challenge, TJ.

(Remember when episodes were only 30 minutes? How?)

Some of those seasons had rounds being two episodes long. So one episode would be the main challenge + vote, the other would be life saver + elimination, or something like that. So those old seasons were running 4-5 months like they are now. I didn't dig too deep, but Gauntlet 3 went down to 10 episodes and then it was during the 20s when the episode count really started to creep up.

I don't know what to make of this Lolo stuff, but one of the dumbest things I read about her exit was "She could have trained there" Well some directional MAC school has a weight room, so it's basically the same as Alabama's football complex. Both have weights and a dining room

**Xno Kappa** · 2021-02-25 19:26

Speaking of Survivor for a sec. Came across this amazing meme lol. Spoiler alert from last week’s WandaVision episode.

Spoiler: show

I fucking knew it!

**Moss** · 2021-02-25 19:34

Originally Posted by Byrd

There's a lot going on with Lolo. I'm sure she believes that about rigging the last challenge, but I just don't find her to be a reliable witness. It did seem like Big T dropped late, but who knows what the rules really are, and they do seem subject to change depending on who is committing infractions.

Her accusation makes sense logically

What is the other explanation for CT and Big T winning by such a large margin? I don't think it very likely that they happened to drop at the very far end of the drop zone while none of the other teams managed to. And even then I doubt they're swimming faster

It also kindve exposes how stupid that challenge was lol. It had some cool elements but it was really just "hold rope and swim fast" all dressed up with bOaTs aNd HeLiCoPtErZ

Per Reddit, apparently kam and Leroy said that Kaycee fell of the boat but was allowed to try again, which is why Josh was confused by his DQ even though he didn't really do anything wrong

These aren't exactly shocking revelations but they still kinda bum me out. Selecting the elimination based on who production wants to win is one thing, this shit is another level of "rigging"

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**Xno Kappa** · 2021-02-25 19:38

Originally Posted by Byrd

There's a lot going on with Lolo. I'm sure she believes that about rigging the last challenge, but I just don't find her to be a reliable witness. It did seem like Big T dropped late, but who knows what the rules really are, and they do seem subject to change depending on who is committing infractions.

Nvm*

**Xno Kappa** · 2021-02-25 19:45

Originally Posted by Byrd

There's a lot going on with Lolo. I'm sure she believes that about rigging the last challenge, but I just don't find her to be a reliable witness. It did seem like Big T dropped late, but who knows what the rules really are, and they do seem subject to change depending on who is committing infractions.

Oof maybe I should’ve read that link first.

**Vil** · 2021-02-25 20:05

Originally Posted by Moss

It also kindve exposes how stupid that challenge was lol. It had some cool elements but it was really just "hold rope and swim fast" all dressed up with bOaTs aNd HeLiCoPtErZ

But... the boat is cool, guys! Before Josh had that whole ordeal, I figured the boat was 100% pointless other than style over substance. Even with Josh and Devin struggling, I still feel like it didn't really add much to it. Could have just had a dock or a platform. Or do that challenge, but have a zipline start like they do on some seasons. Or don't, because CT/Big T would have had zero chance to ride that zipline anywhere. The good thing about a lot zipline challenges is that it usually is a matter of how long someone/both people can hang on rather than "did you grab the rope or no?"

**Moss** · 2021-02-26 10:43

Devin is now refuting what Lolo said about Big T and CT's win being rigged

So at this point I'll just blame production for making rules vague and shooting everything to look "cool" instead of actually displaying useful information

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**Byrd** · 2021-02-26 11:35

Originally Posted by Moss

So at this point I'll just blame production for making rules vague and shooting everything to look "cool" instead of actually displaying useful information

Yeah, I'm generally on board with this. To the best of my understanding, The Challenge is subject to the same game show laws that other game shows are - everything from Jeopardy to Survivor. Jeff Probst regularly talks about someone from CBS Standards & Practices on site and them making sure everything is fair. I would believe The Challenge has to have something similar. I don't pretend to know exactly how that works (and I would *love* to know), but I believe there is some basic level of fairness to these things where winners are equitably determined. If not, there's zero chance Camila would have won Dirty 30 - that's one of the best arguments I have against producers making explicit decisions about who won.

I do believe that sometimes rules are inconsistently applied, however, and many challenges are definitely designed not necessarily to favor one specific contestant, but knowing full well that certain body types and skill sets are more likely to win certain tests. Not everything can be a relatively equitable puzzle. *Perhaps* sometimes eliminations are determined after deciding at least one of the participants, but I think that would be something S&P would likely prevent.

**Vil** · 2021-02-26 11:53

I thought I'd heard a couple years ago that The Challenge is no longer subject to those rules. Could have been just conspiracy theories and/or bitter people, but even with those regulations in place, there's still plenty that production can do. Think of it as more that they can't outright pick a winner, but they definitely aren't stopped from steering things the way they want. lol @ Probst claiming that garbage when that show is rife with production "help" and/or basically get out of jail free cards for the favorites.

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