MLB Offseason Thread: Lockdown is over, now prepare for a lockout

[Xno Kappa]

Then again you can probably argue in no other sports players are given quarter billion dollar contracts of guaranteed money routinely lol.

[Krandor]

Well the big issue is that since a fair portion of the league never have a chance to hit free agency until they're almost 30, there's a lot of those dudes who will never even get a chance to sign those contracts.

[synistar]

Yep quick look at Trea Turner's contract, it's nuts that he is under team control for 7 years, though his 2015 call up was during 2015 September garbage time.

The current framework is 5 years on an ELC, 2 years of arbitration, then free agency.

I think players want to knock off 1 year of ELC or FA eligibility at age 29.5 from what I glanced at reddit so I may be wrong.

[synistar]

https://twitter.com/lindseyadler/sta...06945116536843

[Melena]

Yeah, mlbpa is pushing to get rid of that stupid keep a player in the minors for two weeks in April to avoid a year of service time.

They want arbitration to start after 2 years of service time with three years of arbitration which can get a player to free agency after five years

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[Delayed]

No other league has a minor league system as developed as mlb though. And it's there because these guys who get picked up off the draft can't compete at that level from college ball.
If these players want to be paid, they have to be able to play. It doesn't make sense to the owners to pay them when they still aren't competitive pro ball.
The argument needs to be made at how much minor league pay is.

I believe Major league minimum is over 700k and as long as your called up you make that pay per game played even if you don't step onto the field.

There are some sneaky manipulations owners do with service time that aren't fair to the players that should be removed. Getting an April or later call up should still count, but after the trade deadline, maybe that shouldn't.

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[Obsidian]

5 year ELC seems wild to me as an NHL fan where the ELCs are 3 years and a year gets burned every time a player plays 10 games or more in the NHL that season.

[Melena]

No other league has a minor league system as developed as mlb though. And it's there because these guys who get picked up off the draft can't compete at that level from college ball.
If these players want to be paid, they have to be able to play. It doesn't make sense to the owners to pay them when they still aren't competitive pro ball.
The argument needs to be made at how much minor league pay is.

I believe Major league minimum is over 700k and as long as your called up you make that pay per game played even if you don't step onto the field.

There are some sneaky manipulations owners do with service time that aren't fair to the players that should be removed. Getting an April or later call up should still count, but after the trade deadline, maybe that shouldn't.

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Ahh yes, the wonderful minor league system where players are cramming 4-8 people in a 1&2 bedroom apartment because they can't afford rent, and living off top ramen.

Baseball economics are heavily slanted to the owners first, the 1% of players that are of superstar status next, and everyone else at the bottom. The fact a team can keep you under control for the better part of a decade before you even sniff free agency is a travesty.

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[Delayed]

Ahh yes, the wonderful minor league system where players are cramming 4-8 people in a 1&2 bedroom apartment because they can't afford rent, and living off top ramen.

Baseball economics are heavily slanted to the owners first, the 1% of players that are of superstar status next, and everyone else at the bottom. The fact a team can keep you under control for the better part of a decade before you even sniff free agency is a travesty.

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One of many of the "coming of age" stories every single player talks about too. It's just normal to sleep in a broom closet or under the stairs room in someone's home while in the minors, and is how most of these guys end up as good friends on the teams as they do.
I don't disagree with the way they are paid, but it doesn't help them to be mad at the way contracts are slanted towards the money makers of the club. They're misdirecting the frustration financially.
Do the players lose ability to train, pt, rehab right now while in the lockout with their club also? That doesn't help anyone, at all.

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[Melena]

One of many of the "coming of age" stories every single player talks about too. It's just normal to sleep in a broom closet or under the stairs room in someone's home while in the minors, and is how most of these guys end up as good friends on the teams as they do.
I don't disagree with the way they are paid, but it doesn't help them to be mad at the way contracts are slanted towards the money makers of the club. They're misdirecting the frustration financially.
Do the players lose ability to train, pt, rehab right now while in the lockout with their club also? That doesn't help anyone, at all.

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Not really. The ability to even have free agency is only slightly older than me, and it took striking to get that.

Every gain players have gotten from any sport have come from strikes. All the lockout does is try to put the squeeze on players instead to see if they will blink first.

And really, that coming of age shit is just that. Shit. NHL prospects in the AHL and euro leagues don't deal with that, nba and NFL players have the NCAA to ensure they get fed and housed. MLB is the only one of the big four that pays their minor League players below minimum wage and no housing for the season.

And yes, during a lockout, no team employee can interact with any player, even for rehab.

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[Delayed]

Ncaa isnt relevant to the majors though... once you get drafted into pro ball they no longer have any say so.
Where would the NFL players who aren't assigned to active team roster end up? There is no similar system for them to get play time.
The argument needs to be made on MiLB players being paid better, through whatever means they use to do so, not through trying to blame betts or tatis for making their money.

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[Obsidian]

...no one is blaming players who get paid?

The entire point of contention is that unless you're one of the 10 best players in the league, you get jerked around and have your service time manipulated into not counting so the team can keep you on an ELC in perpetuity.

[Delayed]

...no one is blaming players who get paid?

The entire point of contention is that unless you're one of the 10 best players in the league, you get jerked around and have your service time manipulated into not counting so the team can keep you on an ELC in perpetuity.

But like you just said, that is the exact argument being made. Only the top 1% gets paid and the rest aren't.
The owners aren't wrong when they look at the union and shrug shoulders because those players are the reason the club makes money.

It has nothing to do with why the minors don't get paid enough, which is where the argument needs to stay focused on, not bringing up the top end.


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[Melena]

Minors is something that very much has to be in the top end as players are outright quitting due to conditions, and if you don't have new players, you dont have a league.

You were the one who brought up how the minors train the upcoming players, and I countered with how the NCAA is quote literally the minors for two different leagues.

The demands for changes to service time manipulation is something that is going to benefit every player. Not just superstars, but everyone down to your utility and back up players, so of course Manfred is going to play up the won't someone think of the small market teams thinking.

That said, it's just outright stupid that players are going into their thirty's before getting their first crack at free agency and a big payday. Even with the NFL's franchise tag, players are still in their twenties when they get a chance to find out their worth in the open market, so it's something that absolutely has to change.

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[Xno Kappa]

Minors is something that very much has to be in the top end as players are outright quitting due to conditions, and if you don't have new players, you dont have a league.

You were the one who brought up how the minors train the upcoming players, and I countered with how the NCAA is quote literally the minors for two different leagues.

The demands for changes to service time manipulation is something that is going to benefit every player. Not just superstars, but everyone down to your utility and back up players, so of course Manfred is going to play up the won't someone think of the small market teams thinking.

That said, it's just outright stupid that players are going into their thirty's before getting their first crack at free agency and a big payday. Even with the NFL's franchise tag, players are still in their twenties when they get a chance to find out their worth in the open market, so it's something that absolutely has to change.

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And even then that argument is absolute horseshit after baseball introduced revenue sharing back in the late 90's. You still have teams like Pittsburgh who couldn't care less about being competitive with the owner pocketing every dime in profit. To my knowledge there's no salary minimum for a team so perhaps that's something that should be looked into as well for the sake of parity.

[Krandor]

There is no minimum, how we end up with teams like PIT/CLE/BAL paying less for their entire rosters then some teams are paying a single player.

[Melena]

Your reminder that the contract Tampa just handed out to that rookie is worth more than their total payroll for the last three years combined

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[synistar]

Your reminder that the contract Tampa just handed out to that rookie is worth more than their total payroll for the last three years combined

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And there's a 2023 club option so they can nope the fuck out of the contract after they only pay him *checks notes* about $9M of the $182M the contract is worth.

[Krandor]

This reddit post is incredible

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/co..._post_lockout/

[Mertron]

a lot of those ideas are hilarious but unfortunately impractical. you would never be able to steal first to third or advance to a super base unless fielder indifference/ball gets thrown away (and even a poor through to a super base could probably be recovered from in time)

that being said i am in favor of all said changes