the most shocking part of this conversation was learning Meyers Leonard averaged 18-9 that playoff run
how
why
the most shocking part of this conversation was learning Meyers Leonard averaged 18-9 that playoff run
how
why
there's no discrediting what curry's accomplished in golden state. his ability to blend well with other stars (same quality that i dont think people give wade enough credit for) and the sheer gravity he imposes on a defense (especially without the ball) is something that cements him above dame. we don't know how well dame would have adapted in those environments. so it's hard for me to say either way
however, dame's put up similar numbers, all while playing winning basketball with a fraction of the help. he's had maybe 1 losing season since joining the league (2 if you count his injury year). he's literally winning games despite playing with teammates that have amassed 0 all star selections, 0 mvps, 0 all-nba selections, and 0 DPOY awards since 2015.
all time greats like bron, kobe, and even curry have had major stinker years when their supporting cast was flat out bad, yet we've seen dame win a majority of his games in a tough western conference year after year. i think thats gotta mean something
all things considered, i'd put curry top 15, dame top 30 (for now)
who are your top 10 players of all time, in order
actually let's say top 15 since you mentioned curry anyway
a lil wild imo, at some point talent has to turn into accomplishment, BUT, you've convinced me Dame isn't that far off from Steph talent-wise. even the gaps in their efficiency would prolly be closed were Dame to get into a system as good as Golden State's. think Steph has become a better defender and is much better off the ball, but, fairly close offensive outputs, and who knows how Dame woulda developed in another life.
i hereby revoke Dame from fringe 75. let him be, fringe 50. namaste.
interesting, i usually see you mention oscar a lot when talking about the greats so i'm surprised to see him not included here
think i mostly feel the same but i have dirk in there and not malone
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Russell
10. Hakeem
11. Kobe
12. Steph
13. KD
14. Dirk
15. KG
something like that
wilt is a hard one for me to place because obviously he's got mindboggling stats, but i've also seen some theories that he wasn't nearly as good for an offense as the box scores led you to believe, but also that he way, way better on defense than most people realized. might swap wade in for KG at the end there, also. or oscar, idk. also think KD and curry are really close and i could flip a coin on the two depending on which way the next few years go.
fwiw obviously most of us have only seen SOME of these guys play in real time, and not all, so that makes it all the more complicated to rate kareem/oscar/wilt/russell, or others if you're younger. so if i had to do a list of guys i've actually seen play live or had a comfortable amount of footage + understanding of the their games and eras i'd certainly subtract kareem/oscar/wilt/russell from this list and make it like a top 11 or something. but i'd also feel pretty comfortable with the order of that list
1. Jordan
2. Bron
3. Kareem
4. Duncan
5. Wilt
6. Larry
7. Shaq
8. Russell
9. Hakeem
10. Barkley
11. Magic
12. Kobe
13. Steph
14. KG
15. West
16. KD
17. Malone
18. Big 0
19. Admiral
20. Stockton
lol so stupid i was just looking up west's stats but i forgot to even mention him. can't make a list without disrespecting someone who was legendary.
perhaps it makes more sense to do the cop-out thing and make tiers? lol
Anything prior to the early nineties largely only exists to me by word of mouth or video packages.
Guys like Mikan are basically just some mythical figure because so little watchable footage is around from that time. Kind of also applies with West/Wilt/Russell/Robertson, but their statistical achievements largely speak for themselves.
nah i'm trippin, kd's numbers are filthy. all he needs is a ring
I'm surprised yall put Hakeem so much higher than the Admiral.
Oscar i've kinda fallen out with partially cuz of Russ doing what he did so many years running lawlz. huge stats but he didn't win till he had regressed p good and Kareem took over.
Wilt yeah, his offense was overhyped and his defense underhyped. when he went to the Lakers and let West + Goodrich be the top options and he just focused on rebounding and defense they instantly won a ring. shows to me his situation was dog shit so why not score 50 a night, but if he got a better team he woulda been a different player with a lot more rings.
regardless i'm proud of bg hoops for unanimously recognizing the top 3 and being p close all around
100%. Hakeem spanked Robinson head to head and when Jordan left and it was anyone's league Olajuwon made it his with definitely not the best team. not even fuckin near the best team he won that shit without another all-star.
the 2nd option on the 94 Rockets was Vernon Maxwell dumping in 14 points and 4 assists a game on 38%. and Hakeem still tore through Drexler, Barkley, KJ, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Starks. all time run. legacy defining.
1. Jordan
2. Bron
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Russell
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Kobe
11. Hakeem
12. Curry
13. West
14. Durrant
15. Garnett
Giannis and Luka definitely going to crash in as long as they don't suffer a D-Rose type disaster.
I think KD can leapfrog over Curry if he can lead the Nets to a ring. Like he walked into guaranteed rings by signing with GSW, but I also think he was individually the most important piece in those two runs as well (insofar as that matters against the overwhelming strength of the roster as a whole plus the system).
Techs just flying out all over the place in Dubs vs Suns.
Draymond, Kerr, Ayton, Klay, and Booker all in like the last 8 minutes.
Oh and another for Klay, he gone
You can't be top-30 all time with only 1 single ALL-NBA 1st team under your belt, cmon
Also these top-15/20 lists have way too many power forwards not named Giannis on them. He's not "going to crash the list in the future", he's there.
Malone, Dirk and KG only wish
lmao i don't think i've ever seen a quarter with 6 techs, chirpy one